It's alleged that P.I.E Paedophile Information Exchange was funded by the Home Office / DHSS Department of Health and Social Security (known now as the DoH Dept of Health).
On the 16th-23rd Sept 1987 Ben B from DHSS and Mary Moss a member of the NAYPIC Management Committee went to Ireland to attend a foster care conference together.
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| Ben B DHSS in Ireland 1988 with Mary Moss |
They flew to Dublin. Mary stayed with an Irish social worker and Ben stayed elsewhere.
Mary Moss was asked to do a speech about her life. The conference members remarked that she was an intelligent but extremely angry young person. Some however disagreed, stating she was right!
Ben had been in care himself with Barnardo's and was a rising star since he had done very well.
Mary was consulting on the Children's Act green paper and UN convention of the rights of the child.
Ben B effectively vetted this volunteer to NAYPIC. She considered that they were now friends.
Mary came to NAYPIC to meet Carol, attending NAYPIC's office to make a complaint about her ex children's home. All seven members of her family had been sent to, Bexhill on Sea from London. The children's home had separated Moss from her family and would not let her see them all for Christmas.
Carol attended the children's home and spoke of Mary's right to family life and so they capitulated.
On the train on the way back to London Carol asked Mary to join the London NAYPIC Management.
After a successful Christmas together with her family, Neil, Mary's social worker came to visit her in the New Year and gave her a press cutting that Carol tragically has passed away at just 21 years old.
Although Mary was at Brixton College doing the Preliminary Course for Social Care, having already done the Community Care course at Hammersmith and was pretty much joining social work, she then immediately joined the Managment Committee and became a volunteer at NAYPIC, often appearing on TV on show's such as 'Kilroy' and 'The Time and The Place', also consulting on child care papers.
When Carol's job was advertised in the Guardian, despite dozens of applicants, a panel of 5 interviewees including Barbara Kahan and the Children's Legal Centre remarkably gave Mary the job at just 17 years old!
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| Mary's P60 |
Barbara Kahan and Mary had never seen eye to eye. Mary had never really seen the need for the advisors and found them all very controlling. A panel member had later told Mary Moss that Barbara Kahan didn't want Mary Moss to have the job but she was outnumbered by 4 other panel members.
Mary began to clash with Barbara Kahan on many occassions like when NAYPIC and BIC Black and In Care were invited as guests to meet HRH Princess of Wales, Diana, who was opening up the statue on the front door of the (National Children's Bureau) NCB's Head Quarters in Islington.
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| NAYPIC & BIC invited as well as lots of DHSS |
Barbara had told Mary to wear a suit, so Mary wore a dinner jacket with a pink triangle badge on it and Barbara Kahan could be seen raging that the Princess missed out all those lined up and made a bee-line to chat with Mary Moss for a good 5 minutes.
The Princess had seen NAYPIC's magazine 'Who Cares' (recently in 2018 changed to 'Become' which had been monitized by NCB and hi-jacked for all it's revenue as soon as it became successful), where Mary was in the photo story, about not seeing your family for Christmas, she said she would keep it.
Barbara had more older followers in the North NAYPIC now over 25, such as founding members from the 1979 conference at NCB. Although Mary had met them all, they were before Mary's time.
Shane E had done great work setting up NAYPIC and quite enjoyed the prestigious adult advisors but he didn't want to quit being in control of NAYPIC so him and Barbara were birds of a feather.
Mary's Moss's salary was fundraised by the London Office, so gave neither Barbara or Shane control.
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| How to Set Up A Local Group written and designed by Mary Moss 1990 |
The advisors and ex-members decided that it wouldn't do, to not control NAYPIC's finances, especially the DHSS funds but as well, all, the funds incoming to the organization. So they between them set up the 'in care company', immediately attempting to sack the London and South workers, withdrawing the office revenue and attempting to close down the London Office. Mary was then left employed on her own, simply speaking to her own funders to get office costs, so it didn't work at all.
Then tried to relaunch NAYPIC calling it 'NAYPIC', even though they were the 'In Care Company'.
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| Moss and co demonstrated outside and eventually took over the conference thwarting the coup |
This
time Mary, armed with two NAYPIC members Barnet's, Robert C
J and Bradfords, Andrew A and a journalist Michelle C
of Care Weekly Magazine, a new social work magazine, went to Derbyshire
to stop the relaunch and theft of the organisations funding, by adults.
Mary's side won the arguement and vote. So they successfully went back to London, yes without DHSS funds but keeping NAYPIC's constitution as an organisation run by & for under 25 in/ex-care!
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| London Development Officer Lohni R and Michael H Manchester Development Officer |
Michael H, Manchesters Development Officer credited with actually discovering 'Pindown' and pretty much from the 1987 new batch of DHSS funded staff, was equally networked by the prominent prestigious adult advisors, especially in Mick's case, Sir Harold Haywood of the Prince's Youth Trust.
Michael and Mary were used to difficult funding applications, they had a meeting with the DHSS and successfully restored funding as well as brokered a relationship back with North and South NAYPIC.
Mary's London Development post was luckily funded by London Borough's Grant's Unit, LBGU was all London Borough's, who met up to give grants to volutary organisations, NAYPIC's grant was 40K.
Mary's grant's officer was Dorothy Buckwell whom Mary had a professional relationship with (but Mary used to call her Dorothy Buckbaby behind her back) since she had been so supportive at times of need. She was interested in all of NAYPIC's work and wasn't afraid unduly of exposures of abuse NAYPIC did. She was stern, steadfast and professional and expected only the best quality accounting. Since IVAC had told Mary that she kept accounts like a work of art, Dorothy repected that.
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| Councillor Chris Fay began a series of appointments with Moss at NAYPIC to discuss Greenwich abuse cases |
Cllr Chris Fay of the London Borough of Greenwich first made an appointment to see NAYPIC on 8th Dec 1988 at 11am with regards to allegations of abuse and a ring operating from Green Lanes children's home managed by Polly Perkins, also regarding a worker Lloyd Austin who had allegedly raped girls in a Greenwich secure unit and assessment center called Melanie Klien House.
Fay told NAYPIC that a prominent MP Peter Bottomley had supported Lloyd Austin in his dismissal proceedings. Mr Bottomly had said it was only because Lloyd Austin was in his constituient.
Fay had another appointment with Moss on the 8th Dec 1988 at 11am.
Again Fay met on 20th Dec 1988 but this time he meets Mary Moss at The Local Government Ombudsman in Queen Annes Gate, St James London to proceed a complaint about Green Lanes.
Fays next meeting was at the NAYPIC office the following year on the 7th Feb1989.
On 3rd March 1989 Mary Moss takes many of the cases of MKH Chris Fay has already written up to Rosie Barnes Secretary of State, who has taken up the cases as an MP.
Someone from LWT has been contacted called Stewart 737-8270 + 261-3454 some proposals and private money from Robert Maxwell, Daily or Sunday Mirror, is logged as a note.
On 9th March 1989 Moss was met by Chris at Kidbrooke, Greenwich to enter MKH secure unit.
On 15th March 1989 Chris popped into the office with some proposals.
On 6th April Chris was due at Mary's flat at 4pm but that was cancelled.
On 10th April at 2pm Fay had an appointment with Mary at the office.
On 12th April 1989 Mary spent all day working on Melanie Klein House work.
On 14th April 2pm Mary visited Lisa G at 40 Greenwich High Road SE10 after taking a meeting with Chris Fay and Sarah S at the office at 11am.
On the 17th April 1989 Chris writes in Mary's filofax, he is with Melanie M at her house, one of his cases 12-2pm.
On 19th April 1989 Chris went on LWT re the cases. Mary Moss was in Lecester doing a 'children's right's in action' with Mike Lynsey that day.
On 20th April 1989 Mary met with Juliet S from Melanie Klien House and everyone came to the House of Commons with her for 6pm on the Thames to meet Lord Ennals.
The 27th April 1989 Chris is in the office.
Moss meets Chris at 11am in Elephant and Castle on 2nd May 1989 and Mary Moss has a 'Save the Children' launch of the UN Convention of the Rights of the Child, ratification and signing of the treaty by the UK with Princess Anne and the great and good in child care, later that day, Mary mentions MKH in a question to Princess Anne.
5th May 1989 11am Chris Fay is in the office. There are two, names redacted, cases Mary is now working on, so they are both logged.
15th May 1989 Peter Bottomley MP is opening a unigate dairy and NAYPIC is earmarked to be involved in demo's over, name redacted, that was allegedly raped by Lloyd Austin at MKH.
17th May 1989 Demo at Greenwich Lloyd Austin's disaplinary hearing.
24th May 1989 Mary meets Rosie Barnes MP at 4pm House of Commons re MKH.
26th May 1989 meet with Richard Johnson of Incest Crisis Line to exchange info on cases and he knows all about Greenwich and later Richmond.
NAYPIC demo Woolwich town centre 10th June 1989 10-2pm on privatising children's homes.
21st June Greenwich Complaints Procedure Group meeting 4pm.
19th July 1989 Andrew A meets NAYPIC at 1pm and Gill Priestly meets NAYPIC at 3pm. Gill and Lisa G in at 3pm and 4pm 27th July 1989.
Dorothy Buckwell LBGU at 2pm 28th July 1989.
Conference for 3 days 11am-5pm meet Richard Johnson ICL again and 8th and 10-5pm and Marietta Higgs the Cleveland case. Friday August 1989 Jackie Hughes World In Action and Sue Walker investigative Journalist meet Chris Fay at my office at 7pm.
Mary met Louis D that day at 11am so that'll be the In Care Company dispute.
30th August 1989 is the In Care Company Launch in Derbyshire.
11th Oct 1989 3pm Mary has a meeting at West Greenwich Community Centre.
14th Nov 1989 there is the Melanie Klein House reunion.
Mr Chris Fay was a well connected Trade Unionist, had links to the media and said he's beed a residential social worker but had been sacked wrongly for exposing the system, he said. Mary Moss did not check out the residential social worker part and took him at his word and since he made no mention of the wrong doing that had happened to him, she never realised until 2019, that he may have been dismissed for abuse himself for all she knew and was possibly taking everyone down with him that he knew was involved in all the abuse.
The police implied this in https://www.iicsa.org.uk/key-documents/10565/view/OHY005586.pdf and in DCI Paul Settles Witness Statement he says he met a 'trade unionist' when he first met Tom Watson MP in 2012 and where he first heard of Elm Guest House.
In Hindsight Chris Fay knew alot about the conservative Monday Club he could've potentially been involved with PIE or be selling the secrets of PIE to other countries like Russia to play politics with the establishment?
Mr Fay used to tell NAYPIC that the National Council for Civil Liberties NCCL membership was of Voluntary Organisations and that they had the Paedophile Information Exchange PIE as a member and he would suggest we phoned NCCL and so we all did and we used to tant them saying that they were supporting paedophiles but they used to say that the membership was of all vountary organisations.
It's only now that this random act regarding PIE makes more sense as Fay was so in the know.
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| Statement of a 1990's Detective on Cllr Chris Fay given to iicsa at March 2019 hearing in evidence |
Mr Fay's language was very un-pc when he would use words like 'kiddie porn' and very salicious language so Moss particularly hated this feature in Fay, she found it vile. But he was playing the good and helpful person, always willing to assist in any way, using exposure of abuse and some fear.
However very quickly into NAYPIC exposing all of the abuse that Fay brought to the office, and once Moss had visited the victims and obtained £22,000 in compensation for 3 of them, with the Cllr Fay from the Local Government Ombudsman, Mr Bottomley was deported to Northern Ireland.
He very much seemed to die a political death and had threatened the orgaisation with his 'freed and chomley' lawyers, for which Moss just ignored him (however it seems Fay wrote back to him according to the internet and twitter 2013'). But there was one time he was part of a 'youth in parliament' day, so Durham NAYPIC's Martin T and Mary Moss attended and asked him publically 'why did you support Lloyd Austin in a rape allegation against a child in care?' to which he said he was not there to discuss that and then he left the room and ran past Moss who was in the corridor.
That is until this case reared it's ugly head recently and he delighted on radio in telling everyone that Councillor Fay was a crook, which was true but a bit pot, kettle and lame, seemed like a grudge and afterall he did have 'some' connection with an alleged rapist who he did defend for whatever reason.
His wife Virginia Bottomley however rose to prominience becoming Health Minister so she was in charge of our DHSS grant as she was now the head of the DHSS. Mary Moss met her for a funding application sign off, as well as, was invited with Bridget R our new London Development Officer at the time to go to a Dartington conference in Totnes, Devon, staying overnight at the castle with the old DHSS funding boys about 12 of them and Mary got drunk into the night with them all.
Turned out the place was one of Mary's families ancestoral homes, who knew? It was also Halloween and Mary had brought some plastic nails and made them all wear them calling it the black nail club.
Mary had about 100 cases going on during a year and was often bogged down in lobbying and paper work with funding applications and policies to address, as well as speeches and TV appearances etc.
NAYPIC had many publications there was 'leaving care where?', 'Santitary provision for young people in care?', 'Access to your files!', 'Attending your own review', ' Evidence to the Barclay committee about residential care' and noramally Professor Mike Stein an adult advisor from Warwick University would help with those publications but Cllr Chris Fay began to make himeself useful.
Mary Moss had made two publications herself, 'Time for Change' 1991
Chris Fay said he could collate Mary's casework with statistical analasis and make it into a new NAYPIC publication, called 'abuse in the care system' but because there was also so many psychiatric cases Mary was dealing with including the eventual closure of AMI's private hospital in Dorset putting her on news at 10, she wanted a separate one on that to be called called the 'thearpy of fear'.
https://legalaidcuts.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-thearpy-of-fear-there-is-no-case.html
In the case of Langton House in Dorset Cllr Chris Fay drove the hire van down to the hospital since Moss had to visit her multiple cases of complaint and meet the staff and their lawyers;
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| Visiting Lord Ennals NAYPIC advisor |
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| Juliet S with Cllr Chris Fay at Hse of Commons |
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| With Lisa G on the right (now deceased in 2014 after police contact) another MKH complainant |
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| With Sarah S Gloustershire NAYPIC and editor of two publications left |
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| With Ben P Birmingham NAYPIC and Journalist |
And there was one other occassion that Cllr Chris Fay happened to be in when we were doing an event at Bromley, since they were privatising and selling off the children's homes and selling the children with them so Mary took the case to the High Court.
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| Greenwich Council 17th May 1989 4pm Demo of Council Meeting |
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| Banners and leaflets handed out at Town Hall about Lloyd Austin's disaplinary hearing held that day |
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| Lisa G Greenwich RIP |
Then one day a Mrs Carol Cazier made and appointment to see Mary Moss at the London Office.
Carol and her children were about to take a case against Richmond Social Services in 3 months.
Carol said she had seen Mary Moss 'on the telly' as she put it. She thin, little and slight a lovely lady, very bubbly and cheerful. She was also very frightened and she believed that her life was in danger.
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| Carol was suing the Director of Richmond Louis Minister |
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| Crown Court Guest book with VIP abusers signing in to Carol's B+B in Richmond |
She explained to Mary that her two children were taken off her and made 'wards of court' a bit like Lisa G above and what that means is you can't do anything without the courts permission. Mary was nearly made a ward of court when she was taken into care by Hammersmith and Fulham in 1981 but was grateful she wasn't as you had to be back and forth all the time into court for decisions, even staying overnight with a school friend. NAYPIC hated the use of 'wards of courts' and found them to be a draconian and abusive way to keep an eye on certain children but most of all too their families.
It was clear to Mary Moss that Carols son E C who was 17 years old and 18 in three months and her daughter N C of 21 already, would at some point be coming into the office to be supported for the court case, so Mary could take on the case on that basis. NAYPIC NEVER took on a case for an adult only children, especially a parent as it wasn't in NAYPIC's constitution, only under 25's in/ex care.
Carol popped in twice perhaps after that and on the second occassion Mary recalls vividly that she handed over to her whilst sitting beside Mary's desk the signing in books to the B+B and there was some discussions on who the people where and how she had not realised who they were except Leon Britain and Cliff Richard at the time and some Bishop she seemed to know about him. She said she had 4 filing cabinets of evidence in her flat in Barnes, where she lived with a homeless girl that she was looking after from time to time and that she had a boyfriend called David I, Mary recalls.
EGH story to go through it was not something that was easy to understand, Carol had said that for her she believed it would bring down the GOVERNMENT so Mary Moss wasn't altogether happy that all these dangerous cases had come into the office, since she was already dealing with Andrew A of Amsterdam snuff movies also the Nottingham Walloton Hall abuse cases were on her radar due to her investigative journalist girfriend at the time working as a researcher on the case for Channel 4 'beyond belief', and later on Vincent S of Grafton Close children's home in Richmond.
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| Andrew A |
Before all these cases came in there was normal cases like Charleen E a runaway from Lancashire who used to hang out with Maxi Priest or Dalya S who wanted an educational grant etc
It was on one of Carol's few visit's to the office that she met Cllr Chris Fay of Greenwich. Fay took an interest in speaking with Carol as he was more her age and he even went to her flat and Mary was annoyed about that as Carol was her case and he shouldn't be near them, however he said he was following things up for the NAYPIC publication. He started to take notes that were far more detailed than Mary would yet have taken a case. Mary often let a young person hang about the office until they were more ready to tell their story but in the case of Carol, Mary perfectly understood that it was for her children to come in and tell the story, as Mary's future NAYPIC case and not Carol or Chris.
Vincent S of Grafton Close made an appointment to see Mary Moss. His notes were given with his permission to Leigh Day solicitors in around 2104 over the Tony McSweeney and John Stingmore abusers case at the children's home and at the B+B where he was ferried to and abused.
Mary always liked the smallest detail when taking evidential witness statements so she could then tell if someone else knew the minor details like for example the decor. Simple but corroberative stuff. Mary had been in the police cadets at 16 years old she knew the meaning of this kind of detail later.
Vincent knew Carol and so when she died he was upset, as he too liked her. He and Mary happened to be in Madame JoJo's, a bar in the West End and when they saw each other they both ran into the loo's and held each others shoulders and said at the exact same time, "Carol Cazier was Murdered!!!!!". It was an awful realisation because she always said she was scared for her life because of what she had put together, with all the time she had without her children and how she had, had to solve the mystery of how her children were taken away herself and how what she now knew would bring down the Government and that, she was so scared all those years for her children in care. She was a drunk now.
Here are some Diary entries from the 1991 period and a bit of 1992 relevance;
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| Do Chris Fay Report Feb 7th 1990 |
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| First Meeting with Carol Cazier 12 noon 13th March 1990 |
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| Carol Caziers Phone No 23rd March 1990 in notes section |
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| Greenwich Rosie Barnes MP meeting 11.15am |
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| 26th March 1990 Kidbrooke Station 10am, Greenwich, local station of Councillor Chris Fay |
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| 30th March 1990 - Launched NAYPIC Publication 'Abuse In Care' later adopted by NSPCC. |
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| 3rd April 1990 6.30pm meeting Green Lanes Compensation with the Council. Got £10,000 each for two and £2,000 for one. |
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| 5th April 1990 Meeting with Michael H Manchester Development Officer NAYPIC |
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| Mike Hames C.I.D in notes of April 5th 1990 |
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| Some number to do with Greenwich on 6th April 1990 |
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| 19th April 1990 11am The Local Government Ombudsman meeting Queen Annes Gate |
Richard Johnson Incest Crisis Line
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| 30th April 1990 10am Lisa G (RIP) MKH in High Court |
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| Management Committee Erica, Terry and Robert C J Covering the office during 2nd week of May 1990 |
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| 29th May 1990 Richard Johnson Incest Crisis Line something to do with his sister Shirley, Vincent believes Shirley! |
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| 2nd June 1990 11am Lyric Theatre Hammersmith Mary meets Addi Stopher Richmond friend of Carol Cazier's on EGH |
Sunday17th
June 1990 Carol Cazier was found dead at her flat (by the homeless girl
Carol used to help and accommodate sometimes) after an 'out of hours'
visit from her GP (police doctor) Dr Walker of Hammersmith who happened
to be Mary Moss's family Doctor too in 1981, when Moss's family of 7 was
taken into care. Mary said hello to Dr Walker at the Coroner's hearing
once he had given evidence. Mary's father had once beaten this doctor
up, in their family home, in Fulham, in the living room. He accussed him
of working for the police and trying to kill him so she was shocked at
events. In fact after the IICSA hearings (in March 2019 for 3 weeks,
where Mary Moss was accused by police of fabricating evidence given to
her by Carol Cazier which was crown court stamped evidence) Mary who
says she was sexually abused at 12-13 years old by her dad believes,
that the very same police surgeon, whom she recalled as Dr Flier but the
inquiry said he was Dr David Foster was very unprofessional in her
opinion, as he was alone and asked her to take everything from the waste
down off when she was only 13 years old. That was at Hammersmith police
station so it's a coincidence.
Also
Commander Neil Jeromes evidence was further suspect when he said that a
social worker called Neil Kier was with Carol's son when he was
examined. Yet as Mary recalls 1. Neil Kier was found dead when this all
broke again in 2013 in a car crash yet the police seem to have a
statement from him. 2) Neil Kier was working at Grafton Close Children's
home where the abuse took place and chidren were traffiked from there
to Elm Guest House according to Vincent who convinently was only 1 of 5
who did not get the conviction for Tony McSweeney (and John Stingmore
who died). Yet he was Mary's case at NAYPIC and was supported by the
late Princess Diana when he was homeless.
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| Reciept Book Elm Guest House |
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| Reciept Book Elm Guest House |
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| Reciept Book Elm Guest House |
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| Reciept Book Elm Guest House |
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| Reciept Book Elm Guest House |
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| Reciept Book Elm Guest House |
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| Guests written into various rooms include Cliff Richard in 1981 Elm Guest House Diary |
Moss was kept from responding to Commander Jeromes evidence to the IICSA inquiry, denied legal assistance to write a professional witness statement despite millions being spent on the inquiry and was told that her witness statement will not be adduced into the public website and emails will not be seen by the Chair Alexis Jay which make serious allegations about a serving MP in the Lambeth case.
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| www.legalaidcuts.blospot.com |
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| Lisa RIP |
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| AK RIP |
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| Robert RIP |
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| Paul RIP |
How
many NAYPIC deaths do we have to put up with, before rights are
established and abuse stopped? We cannot let them get away with it
anymore, we have to rise up and sing and be free!
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| 2nd July 1990 Meeting with Caol Cazier's friend Addi Stolpher after Carol had died |
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| 10th July 1990 Mary Meeting Shadow Minister for Children |
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| 16th July 1990 Mary meeting Addi stopher Friend of Carol Cazier after CArol's death |
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| 23rd July 1990 Mary meeting Addi Stopher |
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| 25th July 1990 Greenwich Social Services meeting |
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| 19th August 1990 Vincent from Grafton Close who Mary met again and is coming in to discuss Carol and Elm |
Cllr Chris Fay must have thought all his Christmas’s had come at once as he was now around many cases he could monitize through the contacts he had in the press. Mary had many a journalist including dispatches, world in action, Tim Tate etc visit the office.
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| Meeting with Stuart Morris LWT and Nick Fielding now Exaro |
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| DHSS officer |
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| 22nd August 1990 Carol Cazier's Inquest in Fulham |
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| 27th Set 1990 One of the MKH/Green Lanes cases at High Court |
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| Sept 1990 Privatisation of Children's Homes Case working with advisor Barristers in Bromley |
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| 3rd Oct 1990 Mary's Journalist partner worked on Channel 4 Dispatches Programme as researcher |
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| 30th - 31s Oct 1990 Mary Moss & Bridget R go to Darlington with Virginia Bottomley and all DHSS boys |
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| Meeting at Mary Moss's with Stockport Social Services Director & Chair of the Association of Directors of Social Services before meeting the DHSS for funding interview after application |
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| 14th November 1990 Meeting with Dorothy Buckwell LBGU, Sandy Marks & Graham Holland Chair's of LBCRPC |
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| 18th Nov 1990 Demo outside Town Hall at Bromley re Privatisation |
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| 2pm Nov 26th 1990 Meeting with Pat Monro at Wilfred Mc Bain (now Hodge Jones and Allen) re Carol Cazier |
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| 4th Dec 1990 1pm Meeting with Vincent re Carol Cazier |
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| Mary's notes |
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| Mary's notes |
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| Mary's notes |
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| Mary's notes |
 | ||
| 10th Dec 1990 Setting Up a Tottenham Local Group |
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| 14th Dec 1990 Setting up a Richmond Local Group |
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Publication by Mary Moss including her own cartoons on How to set up a Local Group |
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| And this is a local group Moss made later in 2004, and one next door on the right 2000 104 & 106-108 Cromer St, WC1 |
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| Ideally the local group ended up looking like what was drawn by Moss in 1992 as seen below in 2004-2015 spaceshift.. |
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| NAYPIC's second shop 2004-2015.. And dreams do come true Moss made this later on her own, with no funding... |
NAYPIC exposed abuse to get changes through exposure, tightening up children’s right’s.
Moss did not know for example that Fay had been speaking with Carol outside the office as well as Andrew, Mary's Amsterdam case and Robert, although like Mary, Robert didn’t trust Fay at all.
When Andrew pitched up at the NAYPIC office one day, Chris Fay offered to get a journalist friend Gill Priestly 'The People' newspaper, to hide him and take him to Amsterdam to expose his abusers.
Mary was for the first time presented with what seemed to be a fantastical case of snuff movies that most people she had run the case by, to investigate, largely refused or looked into but didn’t really think it could be either commissionable and or did not have any resources to keep Andrew safe and Moss didn’t want him at her's so asked Management Committee member Robert to look after him.
So Mary was pitched to by Fay, saying he had a friend in the ‘red top’ press, who could help Andrew.
Since Andrew was Moss's case and she had made it clear to others that she didn’t much trust Fay, as there was an unknown quantity about him, she couldn’t quite evidence, except to say he was un-pc using words like ‘kiddie porn’ so she certainly wouldn’t trust him to assist in one of her own cases.
Moss called Ben P Birmingham NAYPIC who like David A NAYPIC and BIC Management Committee & BBC and another close ‘friend’ of Sir Harold Haywood, (who it must be said also didn’t get much of a look in into Moss's cases regarding doing press/TV/Documentary work), so when Moss asked Ben P to accompany Andrew on the trip, he sent in a friend of his called Gary.
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| NAYPIC Volunteers and MC members and David A BBC/NAYPIC/BIC Management |
Gary was so implausible to Andrew stating he'd been a rent boy nevertheless Gary went to Amsterdam with Andrew. Mary let it happen then, not to stand in the way of progress as Andrew was desperate, but Ben and Gary plus Andrew could now keep Mary in the loop with boots on the ground.
It was just as well for Mary Moss's cautious attitude as Gill Priestly left Andrew and Gary stranded in Amsterdam, once Gill thought she had the story.
However Andrew not being stupid had given her the wrong info, as he feared for his life and was not trusting Gary, Chris and even Moss now, as Mary Moss was not really fully trusting him.
Moss has a bit of a habit of not believing people until they prove things, as proof is not that hard to come by even if it is an accounting of something that is consistent.
Andrew hadn’t told Moss too much. He later made some tapes when he eventually stayed one night at her house and was later that night kidnapped after making the tapes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnOMvItGgLA&t=17s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItsxk_qiAw&t=21s
Moss also has a reasonable belief that when someone seeks justice, that may not mean they’re a good person now just because they were abused! One does not negate or justify the other, either way. A crime is a crime so all abusers must be brought to justice for the sake of the other victims they could abuse.
And she also believes in 'serial complex abuse' and 'set-ups'.
After Carol Cazier died Mary Moss attended the inquest to see if it had been a murder case, since Cllr Chris Fay had taken lots of notes from her regarding a network of abuse involving high profile names.
As much as Councillor Chris Fay went on about Carol Cazier's case in the office so that we could all, ‘get it’, Moss was very much distracted by Andrew’s case and other cases in Bromley and Nottingham mentioned and if you see Moss's day to day work diary, it makes exhausting reading by the amount of work she was undertaking in London and travelling all over the country regularly.
Even the volunteers diaries like Robert’s were full of event’s, talks, meetings, consulatations etc.
NAYPIC was always busy and guilty since they could only give so much time to visit young people and win their cases, which suffice to say they won 99.9% of and there was no shortage of volunteers working for nothing supporting other young people in fighting for their rights in complex settings.
Mary Moss felt a duty to mention Leon Britain at the Inquest hearing as Carol had mentioned him as one of the person’s staying at her B+B and Moss named others too all in front of 13 Press people in the press dock in front of her but only a Sunday paper reported on it and a local paper she didn’t see but it was not the fuss that has been made out of a her unflipped backward photo's as in 2012 to now.
Dorothy Buckwell LGBU rang and Mary Moss asked her how she was doing and she said she had been considering running for Liberal Democrat MP in Twickenham (home of the LBGU), Richmond and in the same conversation Moss told her about the latest in NAYPIC as usual.
As soon as Moss finished her update, Dorothy Buckwell said to her that she had phoned Mary to tell her to get rid of Chris Fay out of the offices of NAYPIC.
Mary Moss felt relieved from the guilt she had doubting the motives of Chris Fay and gladly sacked him as an advisor and banned him from the office that same day. He was very angry and aggrieved.
Mary Moss shortly after had moved the NAYPIC offices from Highbury and Islington to a more secure and contemporary office in Camden Town. 8A Stucley Place, NW1, Camden Town, London.
Bridget R and Joanne A worked there with Pete C, Bridget’s boyfriend doing the administration, (as an out of work actor 'back-up' staff member, which NAYPIC had now and again as an emergency) and after Bridget left, NAYPIC had a new Development Officer and an Admin Natasha and Regency.
Before Bridget left the NAYPIC crew had all partied together and Robert had once again stayed at Mary Moss's house as he had done for 6 months, when he was a 16 year old runaway and she’d fostered him, at just 19 years old herself, as his social worker was intimidated by her and had seen her on TV and in the social work press, so she easily allowed it once she visited Moss's flat, finding it was quite middle class, plus Moss had room for Robert, on a sofa bed in the living room.
Robert said one day after Moss knowing him for 3-4 years that he had been recently done for possession of a carrying a gun and as that as the son of the Governor of Feltham Prison, him being born in the prison with Mum caught short, he said he wouldn’t fair well in Prison and was anxious.
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| Robert at 16yrs old at Mary's house |
Moss and Mac went to the hall of the building after him, to get him to come back but in doing so Moss locked herself and Mac out. So although Moss saw him go from the hall window as he was quite far by then, they now had to wait for Sue W to get back from work, to get back into the flat.
Bridget said he had called the office about 4 months later. Moss was delighted but she said, she had told him Mary was mad with him. Moss was absolutely fuming and furious at her for telling him that.
There was a contingent from Liverpool who arrived at the office one day out of the blue.
A new girl called Dee T about 24 years old who said she was in care, (her Mum whom she said was head of Gingerbread had put her up for adoption but no one wanted her as a mixed race child so she was taken back by her own Nan eventually at 2 yrs old and was now training to be a social worker, so had taken a placement with NAYPIC and had joined the MC in Liverpool) walked in with Chrissie E and Andrea R about 18 years old each and both had been the Liverpool Management Committee for years and Chrissie was voted onto the National Executive Committee.
Moss had taken early retirement at 22 years old as opposed to retiring at 25 years old, giving up a now £14,000 salary to work as a National volunteer setting up the National structure with offices, workers etc, in doing so, had stood for elections in Liverpool and been voted in as Chair of the NEC.
This Dee T wanted to know that day, what the organisations plans were and Mary Moss was more than happy to tell her although Bridget and Pete were annoyed as she was unannounced and they didn’t like her attitude since she wouldn’t take off her sun glasses and she tried to smoosh Pete.
Moss happy to tell an intelligent person all over-arching plans on how previously the National ‘Structure’ had been 'devised' and ‘implemented’ the year before at Liverpool NAGM in a vote and how it had been a lot of working parties and votes to get it into place and that Moss had led this, to which Dee later said, she had been at the NAGM and she had laughed when Moss resigned as Moss chocked as Kent NAYPIC Alex S spoke about her and thanked Moss for her work.
The National Executive Committee were holding a meeting in Birmingham, all UK twelve regional reps turned up and for some reason the three from Liverpool turned up instead of just Chrissie E.
Martin T Durham NAYPIC was due to arrive but Moss can't be sure if he turned up, as she doesn’t remember seeing him so it could’ve been not long after the meeting at Parliament where he got kidnapped for a few days (circa 2018 when he told Moss for the first time) and drugged up and/or arrested but think it was two separate occassions, so Moss, got to check the chronology of that one.
But NAYPIC had a spare room anyway, so Andrea stayed with Chrissie as they were best mates.
Mary Moss had left a loved and supportive girlfriend Sue W whom she’d been going out with for three and a half years, who’d been an investigative journalist with Dispatches and Channel 4 and BBC, in London for a few days which was not unusual with all the travelling Moss and the NEC did.
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| Mary Moss and Sue W |
The NEC would have had business putting the ‘structure’ into place and opening more offices as well as the next National Annual General Meeting, so it would be a busy few days of endless late working.
However Michael H kept saying he had to attend a Prince’s Trust concert with Harold Haywood and that he didn’t know why the Liverpool contingent had been allowed in and/or why they were even in the meetings.
He also took a huge dislike to this Dee character who was sarcastic to him and others and he had met her once before, in the Manchester office and not got on with her too.
Suraya P Lancashire NAYPIC was just annoyed with him for having turned up and then saying he was leaving, so we would have to rush things, as he was still Development Officer in Manchester.
Janette C-B NAYPIC Peterborough said at a much later date when the damage had been done that she had found Dee suspicious and that she was targeting Moss the chair and ingratiating herself to Moss throughout the meeting and that she had been arguing with everyone else and she looked like she was, as Jannette put it, ‘gonna have you’ as Jannette said she was (unbeknownst to Moss and surprised to hear many months later) ‘flirting’ with her.
Having finished the day one, NEC meeting at 8pm, Dee, Chrissie and Andrea targeted and badgered Moss to come to a gay club called the ‘jug’, Moss said no way on so many grounds.
Eventually persuaded to go, the three got a cab there and as they were about to pay Dee said, 'let’s do it on expenses' and Moss said 'no' so Dee said to her “hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil” and suddenly Moss got worried and felt a bit out of her depth, in her head, as to what this was all about, but remaining the stern, serious chairperson she was, she continued to get out and they entered what was a large looking tent like building, with no windows and with what looked like a make-shift bar and there was just a few tables but mostly concerning, there was no one there at all.
Dee went to the bar to get the drinks and came back with three very large Brandies. They had one more and left as Andrea the other gay, said she didn’t need to use her Gaydar, as no one was there.
Moss was glad to be back, but Dee asked them all to her room for a ‘night cap’, she said, as she said she had booze with her so it was hard to refuse a last drink being socialable as it was still early.
There was one single bed and a large chair at the bottom of it with a TV opposite by the door. Mary sat on the large chair, Chrissie was getting tired and put her head on Mary's lap as she was sitting at the bottom of the bed and Andrea sat with Dee on the single bed.
Both Andrea and Chrissie then said that they were going to their rooms and Moss said the same as they were all bored and tired but were just being polite to the new person Dee.
Dee waited for Chrissie and Andrea to leave the room with Moss in the doorway about to leave and then Dee said ‘could I have a word’ so Mary was forced to say 'okay' and so sat down again and as Dee shut the door, she turns out the main overhead light. The light of the TV which has no picture or volume was on and Dee sat immediately on the bottom of the bed and assumes Chrissies previously position but Moss had known Chrissie for 4 years and didn't know Dee and so she played it cool but found it weird, as Dee statrted talking about something and then Moss remembers nothing at all...
Just two scenes, one of her fighting with Dee and one of a blood bath all over the sheets and walls.
At 4am Moss wakes to the nightmare and quickly gather her clothes and leaves.
Moss remembers thinking in sheer disbelief that she could just pretend it didn’t happen for now and felt she had at least escaped at 4am and was now in the safety of her own room, taking a shower plus they were going home that day and so she would just say nothing as it was just a terrible accident but no, that was to be just the start...
It turned out that Andrea and Chrissie best mates for years had slept with each other too (circa 2015 when Andrea and then Chrissie told Moss for the very first time) so Andrea so distressed about what had happened, had when she woke up in the middle of the night, gone around the hotel smashing all the ceiling lights, as she was furious with herself, as a gay woman for sleeping with her best mate.
Dee arrived late into the already commenced NEC meeting, where there was a breakfast buffet at the side and long table where the NEC were meeting and she took it upon herself to walk behind Moss, grab her shirt from behind and pull it up to reveal a major amount of bloody long scratches to the NEC, in a very quick manner, before Moss had a chance to pull her shirt back down in shock.
Moss remembers feeling really humiliated especially in front of two very young NEC members and in front of Bridget R who was simply appalled as she loved Sue W too, as did many members.
Somehow Moss without saying anything and ignoring that violent gesture as if to play it off as a joke, as it didn’t mean that much and could have meant nothing, plus not all the NEC actually saw her back because of her seating position at the head of the table, she thought she would get out of this as quickly as possible and rounded up the rest of the business and was just about to leave at reception, waiting for the last few, when a chamber maid came running down to reception with a sheet in her hands.
In response to the hotel asking to pay for the damage to the sheet Dee made such a fuss about women and blood and she had a full NEC audience and Moss's mind absolutely broke in two.
She said she had had a nervous breakdown on the spot.
Her mind was never the same after.
Never.
It was so humiliating and the looks from the faces of the NEC were so sad in her as their chair.
Dee proceeded all the way to the station in Birmingham to act as if she had just got herself a new girlfriend and Moss now had to accept to all that were there, that she had slept with Dee and now everyone knew and the consequences that Sue W would now have to be told immediately and that the NEC would now see both of ‘them’ as a ‘sudo couple’ and Moss's mind and personality as she knew it had simply gone away, never to be seen again, as the self she could recognise, until 3 years later, from that day and the three years, that then transpired, were of course a further nightmare.
Dee stalked Moss and guilt tripped her about her newly wed husband of just 6 weeks and about her two children HT 8yrs old and LT 5 years old.
Moss couldn’t handle HT's attitude as HT hated Moss with avengence and LT loved Moss when Moss met him, he said, “Hello Mary Moss” amused, sitting midway on the stairs, as Moss walked in.
Dee told Moss within the space of a week or so that her husband was going to kill Dee and so Dee quickly moved her and her children to London to stay with Moss as she said her husband, a bouncer, went crazy and hit her, so Moss who was used to helping people, had to take responsibility for wrecking a marriage and also help all she could to get this young family housed and schooled.
Moss duly split with Sue W, they had both never believed in cheating and were very faithful from the moment they met, for three and a half years.
Sue's heart was broken and part of her hair fell out and Moss wasn’t even the same person feeling nothing, as she hardly knew herself in personality anymore, Sue thought Moss had lost my mind too.
Sue and Moss did sleep together one last time but Sue had met someone in a bar immediately to get over Moss and had a wife and two boys, like they had planned, very quickly, to move on from this.
Moss was not aware until about 2005, when she was pretty much happy and in love again, was running two art galleries, housing NAYPIC’s office files with desks, chairs and computers, as well as 3 websites, that when watching a programme about date rape, she shouted “Oh my God, that is what happened to me!”!
It had taken 13 years to make sense. Moss had been cajoled into staying with Dee, actually her rapist!
Dee T had successfully infiltrated the organisation through the chair, the most powerful organised and fierce person that professionals feared and it was simple for Dee and her father, who turned out to be Government paid official DHSS, Ben B!
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| 1995 Dee T with her dad Ben B allegedly paid official of the Government's DHSS |
Dee also drugged Sacha, Moss's very good friend from the Rebel Dyke days.
She asked Sacha to babysit and Sacha said she proceeded to cheat on Moss with Sacha but didn't know why, as she didn’t fancy her at all and she felt terrible about it but she also feels that now, she too has the information, she too was drugged looking back. Angela another friend felt the same.
Dee perhaps learned her trade of drugging, since she had admitted that she had been a prostitute in Liverpool to buy essentials like a bib for the babies pram, she said and that’s how the whoring started.
She said, David T, her husband was useless and she only married him for revenge because she had his kids.
Moss recalls that Dee told Moss, that David T had said, she drugged his food regularly but Moss doesn't know why she never picked up on that, as he was a bouncer, was big and through misplaced guilt, Moss was just plain scared of him, for what she was led to believe she had done to the family!
Moss doesn't know if she is just being naive about it, but she didn’t find Dee had malice, she thinks Dee was being paid to infiltrate. But there was a few deliberate set ups, reputational damage incidents, played out to Moss's dyke mates to make Moss look like a violent person which was unfair.
The next NEC meeting was planned to be in Liverpool. The organisation was under pressure because Dorothy Buckwell had left LBGU and Caroline Armstrong was NAYPIC's new grants officer and half a million in DHSS funding was applied for, to now cover more regions, as the structure had grown ,with us having set up an office in Coventry and the plans with the success of the invention of the NEC, the National AGM’s having massive turn outs,would only grow as NAYPIC NEC saw it.
Moss doesn't think that DHSS saw it like that but who knew how much we were loathed by them all now that they had very little control or so we thought, since Barbara Kahan, Col Archie Pagan and Harold Haywood era, were now in the background. All of these adult advisors, Moss had already sacked and banned another possible infiltrator one Cllr Chris Fay, of Greenwich Labour Party.
Doug of LBGU then took over from Caroline Armstrong and he had visited the Management Committee on many occasions and told them they needed to do more training, so they got Alison P in, our ex-London Development Officer, who had gone on to set up the International Youth In Care Network in in Canada, where Moss went too originally, and then Sweden where Moss went also and then Alison went for America as she was very successful wherever she went. Maxine W NAYPIC had chosen as our International rep, so she was off on her travels too all over the world.
At the Liverpool NEC meeting Dee assumed, as if normal, to be there, except it wasn’t normal.
The NEC were standing in reception of the hotel, Moss had booked, and another massive argument broke out with Dee and the receptionist.
Bearing in mind everyone had travelled for hours from all over the country, it wasn’t good because the hotel refused now to take our NEC party, due to the argument between Dee and the reception.
Dee says, since it is her home town and was aware Moss has the most massive expansion application to get through too, lets go to a hotel she knew.
So again with a suspicious new set of circumstances and of another manipulation of the NEC by Dee she takes Moss in a taxi to check out the place, she knows of, that honestly looked like a brothel.
The rest of the NEC follow in other cabs, their cabs take much longer as Moss's sister Elena representing the South Coast of England NEC told her later, they did a tour of Liverpool in that cab.
So Moss on her own again walked into the hotel with Dee and immediately see's that there was a CCTV camera on them. She continue to walk around the corner and was about to go up the first step, up some flight of stairs, with brown carpet.
She then doesn't know or recall anything that happened.
All she knows is that she was suddenly some time after, not having recalled climbing the stairs at all, at the top of the stairs, standing up, facing a room and felt the sudden weight of both holdall bags being placed, heavily back on her shoulders.
She says she felt like someone had had sex with her, as she was in pain inside her, as if a lot of sex action had just happened yet she knew nothing about it and that always baffled her how that could be?
Bearing in mind the NEC was on it’s way and had been delayed on some detour, Moss had to act as if nothing had happened.
Just another mystery.
So Dee showed Moss into one of the bedrooms, that was opposite to where Moss had been placed, on the left of the top of the stairs and it was pink, with a large round mirror and two single beds.
Moss walked into the room and stopped at the end of the first single bed, to the right of the room and then moves as if to go back out, using the expression indicating it was okay accommodation, bearing in mind NAYPIC through her would be paying for it, as the chair with the cash.
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| 2K Cash in £20 notes |
Moss looked down for a moment and sees that at the bottom of the bed there is an envelope, so since Dee’s leaving the room at the door, Moss picks it up and shove it in her inside jacket pocket, as she recognised, that it was her's anyway immediately, and was always in her inside jacket pocket, so how she thinks has it ended up just under the bottom of the bed and since no one has seen her put it back or find it, she now has evidence, to her mind anayway, that something funny is going on for sure now.
So Moss now knows she is really out of her depth but finds herself forever looking for clues as to what the hell is happening, now particularly, as she now has the provable evidence, it's something.
Dee leads Moss into a room Moss believes has hidden CCTV in an opening of the attic hatch door, that is adjarred and Dee dumps Moss's regular personal sex toys, that Dee has stolen from London, demonstrably onto a double bed, in a huge room and laughs a lot. Moss felt they were being filmed.
Moss goes downstairs to meet the NEC who have finally arrived, Elena is the first to walk up the stairs and Moss manages to say to her with the others behind her on the stairs, “be careful in here” Elena who is equally suspicious says, “we will”.
The next morning, as if Moss's mind was playing tricks on her, the person who serves up the the hot buffet breakfast behind the glass trolley, is Chris Fay!
And Moss is like "no way" so she just takes that quick glimpse, where he was smirking and she looks down at the floor totally shocked, as there is 'no way it is him' she thinks, she doesn't take a second glance and pretends nothing is happening, as they eat breakfast at the table beside the hot buffet cart.
Due to the close distance of that hot buffet cart and the bottom of the stairs with literally a door in between them, where Moss felt like she had been raped, from one minute being at the bottom of them, it occurs to her, that it may well have been him behind the door, to the immediate right of those stairs, so she will not look at him again, especially if it’s Chris Fay and he’s raped her, she will not give him the satisfaction!
Four NAYPIC members, Erica and Terry and another boy, had been previously driven to Coventry by Sue W and Bridget to drop off some new filing cabinets and filing systems and to set up the new offices. They also done the interviews, so had previously employed Danillo as Coventry's worker.
Now according to Martin T, when in (circa 2018) he disclosed to Moss that he had been kidnapped and drugged at around that time too, he recalled that Danillo, our new Development Officer in Coventry, had accused the NEC of drugging him on that visit and that is why he had resigned or had been pushed out. NAYPIC then, had to interview again and Dee was part of that panel, (where she actually laughed at an applicant) and Darren who got his job, was very much an ally of Dee's from then on and often spent time thereafter, in the London office too or hanging out with Dee socially.
Darren, shortly into his post had come to Ireland with NAYPIC and was busted for drugs in his pork pie hat at the airport. He had the same attitude as Dee and was close with her two children like a dad.
NAYPIC reps were utterly humiliated at the Irelands 'International Foster Care' Conference with reputational damage of the highest order and only Ireland's Paul J our International Youth In Care Network Chairperson, stopped it being a headline story and prevented arrest of us all, by the police.
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| Darren the kids, Dee and Maxine W in Ireland |
Whatever was between Darren and Dee they were as thick as thieves and he was a bit of a jester bully with Moss, who was always feeling out of sorts and had grown her hair by now, as Robert had grown his, as they always copied each others hair style and although Moss hadn't heard from him, he wasn’t yet dead.
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| Long haired Mary & LT in Camden |
Moss got a call from Robert’s Mother in the New Year that Robert had hung himself. With what was happening with her, she knew he had been murdered, there was no way he was just dead.
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| Long Haired Robert at Mary's in Serious Road Trip T-Shirt |
Paul N, Development Officer in Manchester had apparently committed suicide too. Moss didn’t even get to hear about that until 2011 from Andrea, who now lived in Jersey and had called Moss about the child abuse there. NAYPIC had so much more trouble to come and were in the thick of it then.
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| Andrea from NAYPIC Liverpool MC |
Even though NAYPIC got the DHSS funding back, after the attempt to control us hadn’t worked out we got it back anyway. This was probably since there were plenty of ways to control us, as you can see, and all were coming from the Government it would seem in 2019, after the iicsa inquiry opened a can of worms on PIE and in doing so exposed our advisors connected to the DHSS and Home Office.
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| John (Tim Hulbert the DHSS whistleblower on PIE) |
Maybe we at NAYPIC too were just an experiment to alert, historical abuse victims, back to them?
The London Borough’s Grants Unit had told us that due to all our good organisational, structural and case work they were going to make us a NAYPIC handbook for future workers and pay £6,000 for this to a consultancy company.
Robert C-J had said we would open a magnum of Champagne when it was done as we were all such good hard workers and it was a serious development to have our own handbook, so we could show the new structure, how to set up a local group and how we dealt with casework, as well as our part in children’s legal rights, in the Children Act and the UN Convention. How we used solicitors and the Local Gov Ombudsman. We believed this would be the NAYPIC hand book for generations to go by.
So the consultants duly turned up and they were from Jenal 2 consultancy being paid six grand.
All they in fact did was produce 72 points and about a dozen were repeats of the others on criticisms, pathetic things like, we were to get a better paper shredder, it was an obvious set up and a tool to withdraw funding.
Before sending, what was a report in fact and not a hand book, plus they had interviewed staff and blown out of proportion any differing opinions, with Bridget and Moss, an attempt to divide and rule, it was ridiculous!
When they turned up with a long uncut fax of the recommendations for approval Yvette F Southwark NAYPIC on our London MC and Moss chased them out of the office saying it was a set up and they ran because we were not stupid about the facts!
LBGU were in a position now to take our funds and DHSS could duly follow with such a report.
We didn’t take it lying down we lobbied the LBGU with our own counter report on all the facts mentioned in their report, getting into the LBGU building and putting it on every individual councils desk on their committee but it was personal of Doug, he was employed to destroy us and it worked.
It was hardly surprising we had so much dirt on every borough.
Thinking though outside the box Mary Moss quickly before the DHSS took the funds, although they had been delaying NAYPIC payments for months anyway as a tactic causing havoc with salaries and bills, she organised the third National AGM and had a stage built and our street in Camden closed off.
Mary Moss got loads of musicians and face painters and organised the biggest turn out of 1100 young people from care ever, even since by any other organisation, and that was, with her being drugged.
Still it didn’t stop the DHSS funding being withdrawn.
Moss had come to realise after 5 years of service to NAYPIC as a Development Officer and a few years as Chair, like most of our young professionals, trying to do a difficult job exposing abuse, that there was an inherent danger of being Government funded.
Especially by the abusers.
But in general too.
Moss also remembered the words of Robert C-J's who said that the 'House of Lords member' who he had seen now and again, on 'business' said to him, “young people will never come to power without a youth parliament” interesting words from a member of the House of Lords, Moss alway's thought.
So, since now ground down successfully by the powers that be, Moss could only put that idea of Robert's, who was dead, to the last ever vote and since over a thousand people showed up, after she, storming into Whitehall, on the Friday before the Sunday's NAGM, managing to get the last £22,000 of NAYPIC's grant out of them, by saying said she had this concert organised and she would press release if they stopped it, by with-holding their grant and just to make matters even more meaningfu,l Robert’s baby was born that day too, so we had the miracle child (as the Mum didn't realise she was pregnant until the day he had died), so we put it to 1100 young people in care, to the last ever vote;
There was the introduction to the idea of a Youth Parliament and Economy, with a written speech from Mary Moss the Chair of NAYPIC, read by the solicitor George from the stage, as Moss was painting the faces of the kids and was not coherent at the best of times anyway, as she was still being drugged, terrorised and had lost confidence publically, although was fighting and figuring it out still.
So NAYPIC cleverly had the solicitor read out the proposal for the vote, to make it totally legally binding, and the voting was overwhelmingly, unanimous;
We voted to have full membership of ALL young people 25 and under.
We voted to have a Youth Parliament calling it New NAYPIC / Youth Parliament.
And
We voted for a Youth Economy, £1 a head per child in the country as a parliamentary budget by law.
JOB DONE!!!
We also voted to keep the NEC, who were all named, as was elected last year, until our next NAGM.
We were however very quickly closed down.
Mary Moss was attending a meeting with NSPCC and NCCVO and it was a campaign near Downing Street.
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| Mary Moss & Bridget R NAYPIC named on the back |
No computers, no desks, no chairs.
It was a white dustbin cart, with men in white forensic suits, with hoods, that did it.
They had the lot!
Moss pitched up to another organisation on Camden High Street called ‘The Serious Road Trip’. An organisation that raised money to send buses to feed and entertain the children in war zones Europe, where no other charity would go and they were a lot of Moss's friends, real soldiers.
They said Mary Moss could have an office as long as she did some fundraising for them, which was no problem at all, so we clowned around in Wardour Street and raised £750, and our bags were safe.
Dee borrowing £2,000 for the deposit from NAYPIC, managed to get a house in St John’s Wood, by Abbey Road, how she always had money and could afford things, is obvious in hindsight.
She played the hero offering to house Joanne A our South Development Officer, a place to stay with her as part of the reason to get the deposit and since Irelend's Paul was over in England, as he was suing the Catholic Church in Ireland, he stayed at Mary Moss's and looked after the place for her and as luck would have it, AK pitched up, from the rebel dykes at B..B Road in Peckham and she saw the state of Moss, and the fact Moss had still so many really serious cases, that she was still helping with like in Yorkshire, so AK just stayed with Moss now most of the time, seeing Dee for what she was.
Dee and the kids decided finally to go on the homeless person’s register and they moved into a B+B in North London to get housed.
Dee ironically now a professional was finishing her essays, in her social work degree and was having intimate relations with her old, male, bearded, area officer, who could be found drunk at her B+B doing her essays, it was gross.
So now Moss, using the time on her hands also joined a few agencies, firstly to prove you could work in children's homes with a false name, which she planned to then expose and secondly to raise cash.
Moss firstly took up a children's home manager post and bumped into the finance officer for Bromley who looked at her, she looked at him and went, "okay, think I'll just go shall I?" on the spot and left.
Moss then worked for 3 weeks in a semi-independence unit and was paid £1,000+ so left the country suddenly, as she just needed to write the NAYPIC handbook herself and knew she had no peace here in the UK and with NAYPIC gone, Dee distracted, Moss feeling threatened but less drugged, she got out quickly to Delhi in India, booking the ticket the day before and escaping the next morning.
Mary Moss couldn’t concentrate in the UK and there was much not to be lost and so she wrote the NAYPIC hand book herself not losing anything and later in 1999 bought a PO Box called Youth Parliament and in 2001 bought www.youthparliament.co.uk (now archived in March 2019 to https://youthparliamentcouk.blogspot.com/2019/03/archive-wwwyouthparliamentcouk-model.html & https://legalaidcuts.blogspot.com/2015/11/im-one-that-ran-away-and-lived-to-run.html ) putting the handbook and the cases on there, for the whole world to see. Job done! The fight back was beginning.
When Moss got back from India the atmosphere had changed like it was all over now.
She suspects no one expected her to suddenly leave for India for a week and it threw them all.
So they had all lost her and they didn’t know what she had done or who she had met.
More to the point Dee had lost control of her and probably didn’t get any money, any more then.
So when Moss went to see Dee and the kids, covered from head to toe in a rash, from being in India, Moss ended up staying there that night.
The next day the neighbours child also had a rash too.
Moss never saw any of them again.
Dee didn’t contact her, so that plot stopped altogether and Moss was very happy with that.
Except once, years later, maybe 5 years, when Dee pitched up and Moss was in bed with a girlfriend sleeping as they'd lliterally just got back from a holiday and the door rang, it was Dee and LT.
Dee wanted her wedding albums, that she had left in Moss's cupboard for safe keeping, and LT was 15 years old and so Moss was happy to see him.
He was playing a Nintendo light bulb game and Moss actually had a light bulb t-shirt on, under her hoody, so when the lift door was going shut as they were leaving, (as Moss thinks LT told his Mum, Moss had a girl in her room, as Moss heard the bedroom door open, so they moved sharpish, away from her flat), Moss showed him the huge light bulb and he smiled and Moss found that it was sad.
So Moss just then kept her head down for a good while, as she was often followed by the security services MI5 and they actually didn't care if she noticed them, they would laugh in her face. So she did nothing, just paint and be an artist and hide out, just be, because going out was just scary now.
In 1999 Ironically with a start up loan Moss applied for from the Princes Trust. Moss had also consulted with Harold Haywood, as a reference, who was no particular fan of her's, but she didn’t explain she was setting up the NAYPIC offices again, from downstairs in her flower shop. She was 29yrs old not 30 yet, as is their cut off and so Moss set up her first shop and housed NAYPIC again!
Moss had been looking after her youngest brother for 3 years after he was sectioned and so she got her other brother who had also been sectioned, to look after him at a friends house, as he was still in care at 16 years old but was now 19, and Moss thought her family were all targeted too, as well Elena and her little sister Dorothy, targeted from the Nottingham lot, but that’s another story too.
Moss's last ever London Management Committee meeting, members including Dalya and Yvette here
We all had our operatives and Mary Moss was NAYPIC's/Youth Parliament's, to the point where even a Tory MP then set up a fake UK Youth Parliament and had it run by adults at the British Youth Council, such was the threat of Moss's NAYPIC structural and organisational skills and they knew it.
Moss has it all in writing anyway, so if NAYPIC/Youth Parliament do end up with the 12 million thanks to Moss, it's NAYPIC's/Youth Parliament's money of course but for all her sacrifice and work and career and childlessness, she would like her money back as recognition that it was a job with a rights purpose that was dam necessary, so all Director's loans to date and anything borrowed from others too, the totals to date amount's of hundred's of thousands of pounds, especially in court costs, when they took the second lot of her premises also a renumerated salary as promised since she lived mainly on nothing for all this and will probably as suspected be sacrificed in the media or by iicsa as she is a danger to them all still. But the children's right's/economy is becoming an obvious necessity!
NN/YP's new flower shop and self-funded business was called Scarlet Maguire.
Mary Moss changed her name to Jo Gavin, because her second name was Josephine so was shortened to Jo with her mother’s maiden name, Gavin. Her brother Edward use to always call her Jo anyway as kids, since her Mum was Mary Moss too. This would be good to hold a new identity whilst setting up a lifestyle business, hiding at the time the NAYPIC files downstairs, as well as her real name. The youth economy, Jo Gavin would self fund and then she would make the political point, with a new NEC, once she had brought NAYPIC/Youth Parliament premises back, to self funding power.
Jo Gavin (Moss) changed the flower shop to an art gallery after the landlord CHA obscured it, the day it opened, with hoarding and she exposed them on TV, as they were messing with the wrong person.
(Moss) Jo Gavin of Scarlet Maguire did very well as an art gallery for over 10 years, listed in the Guardian and the Independent, next to Sacchi and the Serpentine and she had lots of shows and big turn outs often 200-300 guests.
The landlord loved this so much, so they offered her the shop next door too, when the owner Claire lost the shops due to some building problems with the landlord.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6hs2IH9RuA
The dream launch of NEW NAYPIC / Youth Parliament came true then in 2003 and all the NAYPIC info was safe and NN/YP had offices downstairs, where Moss and others could work from.
(Moss) Jo Gavin had bought www.youthparliament.co.uk, www.youthparliament.org.uk and www.yourdealingwithmenow.com and she wrote up the websites with all the history and a potential private philanthropist future £6 million pounds investor plan too on there, as why not, especially with the 007 course and the second shop, she got next door spaceshift.. and a possible expansion plan to franchise it, as a National multi-functional space available for hire and of course the famous NAYPIC ‘handbook’ was written up on the websites, for all to see and learn from, so Moss had a launch party.
She paid every year herself no matter what troubles she ran into and it was over £200 for those sites a year with hosting to remain visible. Only in March 2019 have the sites been transferred from Transcom to 123reg, as Transcom became very hard to work with once they got their NASA contracts and there's been little access to the sites since the court case battles over the shops in 2015, very odd.
(Moss's) Jo Gavin's only aim was always to set up the Youth Economy by law and the safety of that for children to have that platform as was legally voted for, just like had with NAYPIC. This time it would be a law, to have a youth economy and not rely on the whims of a corrupt and/or abusive Government. This time too, with no workers, just an electronic, self funded platform as seen here https://legalaidcuts.blogspot.com/2015/10/i-remember-writing-this-in-2010-re-what.html
However the landlord in 2007 attempted to steal New NAYPIC's/Youth Parliament's premises again.
And because NAYPIC/Youth Parliament needed them so much as had fought for them so hard, (Moss) Jo Gavin set up a blog called www.legalaidcuts.blogspot.com to expose what had been going on with this rouge landlord! A problem now that has become typical with Housing Association stock.
There was a girl called Salma 12 years old, who had been killed in care in Camden in a car crash with her social worker, which is how the story emerged and Moss was so insensed and frustrated by this as many children were moved around as Salma was and seperated from family by long distances, so she wrote in the Camden New Journal letters page, about children in care and injustice and also Moss wrote in a response column to an article in the Guardian, re something else and when she dealt with these issues, she had always used her previous Mary Moss name and NAYPIC's for continuity.
Angus Stickler BBC replied to the Guardian one and said “are you Mary Moss of NAYPIC” and left his email.
She email replied and told him all about the shops etc, so he knew everything but did nothing to help.
The Chair of the Landlord’s housing stock was a Baroness and Rabbi Julia Neuberger, whom Moss and NAYPIC met before on ‘Choices’ a TV programme in 1988 along with Louis Bloom-CooperQC.
Julia failed to help too and in fact her brother in law who was Master of the Rolls, took a keen interest in the case recommending by way of his Judicial assistant that it be thrown out of court, so pretty high powered stuff for two little commercial shops, for the head man to take any notice in that case.
So Moss, who had now changed her name from Jo Gavin, to Mary Josofar Valdivieso Fortuno Flores (One of 5 of her International Royal family tree names, Moss discovered in 2011 and couldn't believe it but it was true https://youthparliamentcouk.blogspot.com/2019/03/mary-mosss-family-tree-discovered-in.html ) or Jo Flores as she was known as, fought the top lawyers at Enterprise Chambers by representing herself and she just kept fighting and because she was right legally, they couldn’t get rid of her, as it was an ‘absolute liability’ case and it was all covered by building insurance for a fact.
Unfortunately (Moss) Jo Flores came to the attention of her previous badies or it would seem to her anyway with the whole Tom Watson/Chris Fay, Exaro news intervention, very, very, suddenly in 12'.
(Moss) Jo Flores who had also made no bones about exposing the landlord's powerful Neuberger’s sufficiently enough to make people look at her legal blog, now standing at 70,000 view world wide https://legalaidcuts.blogspot.com/2013/10/hall-of-fame.html saying they were corrupt, for people to start making enquiries about Moss. She knew no fear in the fight against child abuse, it drove her on!
Moss had previously encountered a NAYPIC case, where a serving Minister had raped a girl in a psychiatric hospital and stuck his fag out in her face, Jimmy Saville et el, so this Ministers associate Savile, was being exposed now, in 2012 and it had nothing at all to do with Mary Moss, so she was just so pleased to see this and it gave her hope, for a good future as people were exposing all these badies in power, so she was watching monumental and historical moments unfold without her help.
However (Moss) Jo Flores was busy in the Court of Appeal where she had to make some progress after 4 years in court and a long history of being messed about, without due process by the judiciary.
How was she to know she had the perfect storm of a Landlord's and Tenant's, (insurance) repairing liability case to bring back 1868 'Ryland & Fletcher', the law of ‘Absolute Liability’.You couldn't make it up! That and her recent discovery that she was indeed, the living great grand daughter of Edward I, who had built the Royal Courts of Justice. Even the security and listings office knew this.
So Moss said to Jim Reed BBC as a heads up, in reply to his email, to go investigate a few names of interest, knowing as a journalist, that it would be in confidence, as they don’t give their sources away.
Moss didn’t give it much time of day or think anything would happen since they never did anything about anything themselves on child abuse and Saville was one of theirs anyway, so there was a small chance they would do anything at all, as they were mostly ineffectual as investigative journalists now.
BBC Jim Reed asked Mary Moss could she meet with him and she said she was busy in an important court case and had no time for the issue now https://legalaidcuts.blogspot.com/2012/05/ so she couldn’t help at all.
Eventually however Moss agreed to meet Jim as he said he wanted to run a name by her, as they were going to expose another paedophile, so then she felt she had to, as he said they couldn’t be sure and needed her to verify, if she had heard of him.
So she resentfully met Jim Reed BBC for half an hour, as she was in court and couldn't take her head out of the case, as it was so intense and anything else would be a huge distraction for her at that stage.
However she had never heard of McAlpine and so said to Jim to be very cautious because if he started naming the wrong people, all the progress, with exposing Savile, would be lost immediately.
They ignored her blantantly and the newsnight story went ahead the next day on Lord McAlpine.
 |
| BBC Jim Reed looking for Paedophiles to expose he said |
Guess who it turned out that the story was by, BBC Angus Stickler and Moss just knew somehow she had been put in the middle of something big here and set up because Enwhistle was resigning and there would be an investigation and the police would then have her email on their records, as if she had something to do with it at all, which was not even true in any way! So the abuse case was taking over her work now and was a pretty awaful public problem and she felt she now had to deal with fast.
 |
| Angus Stickler BBC Newsnight - First contact with Moss 2007 - Did the McAlpine programme that had BBC Director General Clive Entwhistle resign. |
(Moss) Jo Flores felt very vulnerable again without her shops and NN/YP organisation and now they kind of had her without any ammunition to fight them off in this set-up, and had a massive court case.
 |
| (Moss) Jo Gavin (Flores) made hoodies calling her case 'TRESPASSED' Gavin and anr V Community Housing Association |
There would be no journalist integrity, so cases she mentioned to the BBC that she knew of for years, would now get short shrift and not dealt with properly, when she was at a strong point in the winning of her two art galleries and insurance 'absolute liability court case, worth 2 million quid, that could fund class actions, yet now she was somehow embroilled in a major scandal and therefore weaked in that she hadn’t won yet and all this was on top of her too. What would the Judges make of it, oh dear!
So she attended Enwhistle’s dramatic resignation and told the world’s press what she knew, so that it wasn't just the BBC that had it, the genie would be out of the bottle and his sacking couldn’t be used, to cover up, more cases coming out in the future. This was high jinx to save paedo's and she knew it!
Alister Jackson from the BBC and David Pallister from Exaro a new website news thing funded to the tune of 5 million by an ex Dept of Trade and Industry (((((Government))))) bloke who seems to have made a lot of cash from being sent to Washington by the Government and buying out shares,
 |
| David Pallister Exaro a new news website funded by the bloke below |
 |
| Alister Jackson BBC Panorama |
 |
| 5 million investment by an ex Dept of Trade and Industry (((((Government))))) bloke, Jerome Booth Exaro funder |
both turn up to (Moss's) Jo Flores's, 2 years long awaited court case for ‘permission to appeal’ with top QC Jan Luba who took an interest in the case, on a pro bono bases and actually wins in Dec 12'
Moss tell both investigative journalists to go away but they want Elm Guest House stuff, so she agrees under the pressure that if they go away now, she’ll meet them the next day.
True to her word she gives them what she had, copies of the Guest book and Fay's notes but she doesn't like this sudden involvement either and doesn't like Pallister of Exaro, it's all a bit odd.
Something about Exaro is sudden, new, powerful too quickly and wrong and Moss knows it!
Even today writing this blog in March 2019 after being named at the IICSA inquiry, without notice or reply and having checked her old office diary, (a job that a solicitor and herself could have done years ago, if she could of got one or the police if they gave her a solicitor, under Jackson Law of equality of arms, for a formal process) Moss found that a guy who had been in her offices at the time of Chris Fay 1990, so probably or possibly Chris’s now contact, now worked for in 2013 for guess who, Exaro!!
 |
| Meeting with Nick Fielding late1990 Exaro later exposed Cyril Smith in 2013 so he must have known something then |
Moss doesn’t trust that bad things aren't coming her way due to Chris Fay again, as he was, she found out like everyone else, recently languishing in prison in 2011 see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12348213 & https://www.ryeandbattleobserver.co.uk/news/crime/con-man-too-ill-for-court-1-2402111, for robbing OAP's and probably thinking about the new potential of a Labour Government under Ed Milliband as was then and how he would help secure it with a child abuse scandal. Nor does Moss trust those Exaro blokes Nick Fielding, Pallister, or the Commander of Police Neil Jerome who named her at IICSA or Watts or Henke from Exaro and then just when things so far are taking a turn for the good in her case and all the badies are at her, this MP pops into her life next..
Tom Watson MP contacts Moss and again she is very, very busy with her case before the 'Permission to Appeal' hearing, that was won.
Tom Watson MP tells Mary Moss all about Peter Righton ( https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x23z1gf, when she already knows about him, like everyone else https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OYgTcUctDA
Inside Story: The Secret Life of a Paedophile (The Peter Righton Cover-up)
and Moss had even met Peter Righton as he used to work at the National Children's Bureau with Barbara Kahan one of NAYPIC's advisors, (as seen in the programme link above) and Watson MP requests that Moss actually assists the police in Hammersmith (Earls Court) police, in a secret police Operation, Tom Watson MP tells Moss, the audacity, as Ms Jo Flores (Moss) is just a normal citizen. Hell's Bell's!!Moss says with all due respect, those are the police that may have been involved in the cover up, that NAYPIC the organisation's information is client based and is protected by the PACE, the Police and Criminal Evidence Act, so sorry she can’t work with them anyway and she thinks that's the end of it.
Moss said to Tom Watson MP for Labour, if they want info or the heads up, Moss can always speak to the Government, as she is used to doing that, and that is a reasonable thing she would expect to do.
Due to the way Tom Watson MP spoke to Moss and used the word ‘kiddie porn’ she just knew he had spoken with Chris Fay and if she was winning in her court case and had annoyed the Neuberger’s, plus was soon able to be funding NAYPIC, on her own, as well as woud soon have a famous 2 million pounds liability insurance claim, opening floodgate cases worldwide, than there was a slim possibility Watson MP was not the good guy he was making out to be. He didn't fool Moss for a minute and she was very tight lipped about anything she said to him, she was actually yawning a bit.
But she did just ask him, did he know Chris Fay and he said no and she thought that's it, he is lying.
So, another disaster averted and the badies are flying at (Moss) Jo Flores now in quick sucession, so she must be doing something right, so back to the business of court case and now the possibly of talking to the PM Cameron, where she would warn him of Chris Fay and take the chance of asking him nicely for a House of Commons bill for the youth parliament economy, job done, history made!
But no of course Cameron et el were all so frightened of the child abuse agenda and didn’t know Moss was a progressive, drawing a line under past abuse, to safeguard the future and current children.
As all past victims in her opinion could use new child abuse laws, she had hard fought for, to get themselves solicitors, where as abused children and young people which were her concern, couldn’t.
So Mary Moss was so horrified when the secret operation police, through DCI Settle contacted her.
So she had to now get back to MP Tom Watson to chase the Prime Minister and then she wrote to the PM herself and did a petition to meet with him. Not what she wanted to do at all at that time. But the police were now on her cases, as well and that was a very scary, as she knew it was, a secret Home Office directive, as that was whom she believed had raided the NAYPIC offices in 1993 and took them out of action for years to come. So Moss felt back to square one, exposed, distracted and now in danger even though DCI Settle was trying a nicely, nicely approach, she had no right to work with him under PACE 1984 and she knew it and told him so, very reasonably. She would only speak with the Government and would be talking children's right's terms, as they would expect from her and NAYPIC.
Moss was not going to work with the police for a lovely little cover up, oh no!
The Prime Minister actually wrote back, (bit like today 12th April 2019 the PM office wrote to Mary Moss today 21st April saying thanks but she is busy and Mary Moss can deal with the Dept for Education, or a bit like this email, I got from the DoE, whilst doing the edit of this blog, for a few months now, seen below email from DoE where all are suddenly taking some time to write again, odd;
Department for Education: KiCT 2019-0015058 CRM:0411704
ACCOUNT, Unmonitored <Unmonitored.ACCOUNT@education.gov.uk>
Tue 07/05/2019 10:53
Thank
you for your email of 6 March, addressed to the Prime Minister, about
the Prime Minister’s summit on serious youth violence. Your email has
been passed
to the Department for Education, as it touches on policy areas that
fall under our remit. On this occasion, I have been asked to reply.
Firstly,
please allow me to apologise for the delay in responding to you. I
should make clear that ministers are always pleased to hear from people
like you who
take a keen interest in the education and wellbeing of young people;
the Department for Education welcomes suggestions and comments, as
feedback keeps us informed of current feeling about the government’s
policies.
I
am sorry we were unable to respond to you before the Prime Minister’s
summit took place. A summary of what was discussed at the summit, which
may be of interest
to you, is available here:
It
may also be helpful if I explain that, in April 2018, the Home Office
published the cross-government over-arching Serious Violence Strategy to
bring together work on violence
across departments and set out additional commitments. The strategy
sets out over 60 commitments, including:
·
a new National County Lines Co-ordination Centre to
tackle violent and exploitative criminal activity associated with
county lines
·
more rounds of the anti-knife crime Community Fund of up to £1 million for 2018 to 2019 and 2019 to 2020
·
a new Offensive Weapons Bill to tighten up legislation on firearms, knives and corrosive substances
·
continuing to support Redthread to expand and pilot its Youth Violence Intervention Programme outside London
You may wish to monitor the Home Office website for future updates on this topic:
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/home-office.
Thank you again for writing to the department. I hope this information is helpful.
Your correspondence has been allocated reference number 2019-0015058. If you need to respond to us, please visit:
https://www.education.gov.uk/contactus and quote your reference number.Yours sincerely
J Burgis
Ministerial and Public Communications Division
Web: https://www.education.gov.uk
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/educationgovuk
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/educationgovuk
And after Cameron in 2012 saying no stone would be left unturned, he is saying he was busy and to deal with the Home Office
and then I get a letter from the Home Office 2012 saying to deal with the ……
police.
DCI Paul Settle who is already playing nice, nice in emails, asking Mary Moss to meet him, so that they can investigate what and Moss explains she just cannot in great detail and as to why, PACE etc!
Moss suddenly feel like, it’s all a time warp and she feels Cllr Chris Fay is back somehow in al this and all parties are covering up, as they’re running scared of her, in her court case, if she wins.
So, you can imagine, for insurance and in a panic Moss photographs all the documents she has, in a rudimentary fashion as she is hurried and scared and she puts them up on her own legalaidcuts blog https://legalaidcuts.blogspot.com/2012/12/in-line-of-our-duties-new-naypic-youth.html so if she or anyone in that case is bumped off and those document's are taken, like before, or she's raped or drugged, then friends, have to decipher, what those bloody Cllr Chris Fay notes say, because she doesn’t even get it but knows that it got us all killed and raped before and she is not going through that again, no way!
So police then got a warrant and raided Mary Moss with 9 police officers and the case hit the press.
and her old name Mary Moss became the talk of the day dubbing Fay's notes & guest books 'the Mary Moss Guest List' maybe a real reference to NAYPIC having two art galleries, Moss was fighting for.
 |
| Mary at Sky News |
and of course that blew her cover with the Royal Courts in May 2013 at her Court of Appeal case.
As immediately she was international news and people like this (police plant) started writing before Moss had even got her laptop back, to see on it what had been going on it, was a disgrace, a set-up!
So Moss had to defend herself now with this avalanche cascading towards her but she would be buried in it for years to come, constantly defending and distancing herself from the establishment set up and inquiry and Chris Fay whom was clearly working with the powers that be again playing havoc and getting away with it all.
This new play of their own, was going to unfold and it would be their pantomime, their actors, their show!
Mary Moss: The Real Deal?
Posted
January 10, 2013 by madman in Elm Guest House
It’s
been a frustrating 72 hours.
Life
has managed to intrude on my efforts to really dig into the documents “half”
made public by Mary Moss, current real name Jo Flores. That is changing a bit
now. The effort is being helped by the fact I am collaborating with
someone who’s experience, intelligence and curiosity is a real bonus.
I
will be blogging in more detail, but developments have prompted me to write
this piece to people in general.
Jo Mary, Jo Mary.
Jo
Flores, it is obvious, is a troubled lady. You only have to look at a
photo of her to see that. Her blog shows money problems, an ongoing court case
and some potential personal delusion (a family tree link on the youth
Parliament site that insists she is descended from the Plantagenets).
Huge red flags should be waving as to her reliability.
However,
my belief is she is the real deal…up to a point.
The
reason is simple and in two parts.
1.
I have been informed by someone trustworthy that Operation Fairbank is “as
advertised”. It is unacknowledged and seems to be separate from the general
Police, pointing to them being very aware of the potential criminals.
2.
They are aware of Jo Flores and are concerned that her decision to go
public, rather than take up the invitation to meet them, may prejudice
potential court cases.
Number
2 has been confirmed today indirectly. If you search for Mary Moss
NAYPIC, or Chris Fay NAYPIC on Google, you will see a notice that results have
been taken down in lieu of a decision from a cease and desist application. This
is obviously the Operation Fairbank team trying to stop the problem of
potential trial prejudice spreading. So at least some of what she has revealed
is probably in the right ball park, so to speak.
I
say “up to a point” because we must be cautious. Some of the documents
look genuine, photcopied letters etc. Others have handwriting scrawled on
them and some are totally handwritten. Jo could, for some reason perhaps
related to needing money, have embellished the original details she obtained to
try and create a profitable media explosion. However my belief is that the core
of it is true – the knowledge you would have to have of the subject to write
down all that would be difficult to pull off if you were faking it. The rest,
well we will find out in time.
Trust The Police…For Now.
So,
with the above information, I have decided that mentioning names would be
stupid. The Police do seem to be on top of this and taking it
seriously. They also now know the information is out in the wild, should
they not take it further. For the real consipracy theorists, no that’s
probably not what you want to hear.
Operation
Yewtree took a couple of months to start making arrests and the implications of
Operation Fairbank mean that the Police have to be DAMN SURE before arresting
anyone, espoecially old Tories still protected to some degree. So let’s cut
them some slack and not go mental in wild speculation, spewing what could
be complete rubbish all over the internet about people who may not be really
involved.
Also,
please be aware of libel laws. Attacking people like Mark Williams-Thomas
for not being all over this is unfair. Half the names on those documents
are alive. Therefore, as well as prejudicing a trial, a criminal offence,
you could also be opening yourself up to being “McAlpined”.
Recent
history should have taught all of us to tread carefully, that’s why there is a
media silence. The media are all aware, you mark my words, but to
expect them to open themselves up to libel by saying “there’s a load of names
on the net” is naive. Alert the public to Fairbank and how it could link
into the more “exciting” Yewtree investigation, but try to keep sharp,
otherwise we are doing more harm than good.
Having
said that, researching the background and the framework of the story is fair
game and that’s where my focus is for now. My first post on that will be
out soon, once I clarify a few details.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Lets get this straight. I am not
deluded I was in care due to my father sexually abusing me at 12 (never been
prosecuted even recently tried and police have no report despite 13 court cases
in 1981) now all my life I never understood why he could do that to me and I
know it was probably because I was born hard.. and no matter how much he beat
me and my family and torchered my mother I never cried and that got him and he
had to do something to me extra to fuck me up.. still it did not answer why..
he hated us so much as he is not mad but a very clever man and he was very suspicious
as a character and very powerful in whatever he was involved with which was
something to do with Ireland.. he used to get questioned by the police after
bombings and come home like he got off scott free for whatever he was up to.
Now my mother who died last year (thank god for her bless her to finally be
free of the bastard) well she said one day when he had beaten her black and
blue as it just came out then and only then that he had raped her when he met
her and she got pregnant.. so pieces of the puzzle were coming together for
me.. but there were more secrets to uncover and I knew it. Of course as a kid
one knows that much about real politics and later in life I had a few
co-incidences that made sense to me anyway about the story.. the rest of the pieces
now made sense and only I now know who I am and why things now make sense for
me as to him.. That is a personal part of my life but the reasons why I put the
family tree on the web are nothing to do with my past…. It is to do with later
events of a corrupt court case in 2008 and I thought “you fuck with me on
certain levels I’ll fuck with you the same way with the same game, now who do I
know?”… I was astonished when I lost my court case for trespass of both my art
galleries in WC1 and amazed beyond belief when I got landed with £400,000 of
legal costs for fighting for my rights in a court as an ordinary Jo.. so I
thought ‘so it’s like that is it.. so.. ummm who do I know who is as powerful
as you.. the courts…’ then I remembered my mum who always talked (but I took
not much notice) about her mum’s sister Aunt Helen Lloyd and the Lloyds Bank
and how she could not have kids and wanted to take my mum off my nanny and my
mum used to say she should of and I suppose that was funny and perhaps that why
she was taken to London to as she said ‘become a lady’!! So I got hold of her
will from 2001 and then in turn her friends and benefactors and asked them for
help as I’m not called yourdealingwithmenow.com for nothing.. I had worked
tirelessly unrepresented for years in court and I knew I should have won but
instead I was potentially ruined.. for life and so was NAYPIC (its in appeal at
present as lovely pro bono unit people are finally helping me and guess what
they are winning.. see I told people but no one got it… it’s very complex
disrepair) so YES I used the tree as to be honest.. once I knew of it which was
only last year thanks to a bit of detective work and the great internet
facilities I thought wow.. how amazing so that makes me the living Great Grand Daughter
of the King of England who set up the Royal Courts of Justice.. like I cared
not.. but it was quite funny.. its just that suddenly I was not someone to be
toyed with as much as an average Jo and perhaps that is why I am now getting
help, I am not stupid about that, as it was my intention.. I also then could
understand so much more about me and my past secret past. To be honest I would
of used anything to get justice because I am not having two great businesses
stolen off me and it is as simple as that. I own two art galleries FACT and
although yes you are correct am currently in poverty… I have never been poor..
I am a professional and am being put down by an insurance company and a
powerfully connected landlord.. over some really boring floods which they
should accept liability over but which are not interesting to anyone but us..
however they did fuck with the wrong person… I am a very capable worker..
although I am getting on and just want to go back to work.. Someone said on a
blog perhaps the art galleries were just a cover for NAYPIC.. well that is now
out of the bag drrr.. of course they were. They were the seedling creations of
an independent Youth Economy to fund an independent youth parliament… as stated
on my websites http://www.youthparliament.co.uk,
youthparliament.org.uk and http://www.yourdealingwithmenow.com
In 1992 we were viciously closed down because we were investigating the case of
Carol Cazier. I set up the first gallery in 2000 and the next in 2004. Because
they were healing enterprises and not negative like all this stuff but also
they were mine http://www.scarletmaguire.com
and not funded by Government and my plan was that by setting up http://www.spaceshift.co.uk the second
one, we could create a franchise for all young people to be involved and they
could join my course ‘the founders 007′.. and we could do something about all this kind of stuff by
simply setting up a law center for children and smash cases to bits with
lawyers we would pay for and detectives etc.. I got broken into Oct 2008 and
have been in court since.. that is my background.. so please don’t assume
anything.. Now back to that story you all want to know about. It was a strange
time for me and there was not only Carol’s death but two supposed suicides of
our NAYPIC workers which I cried over for 5 years solid.. Our NAYPIC offices
were broken into too and everything was taken swept even the furniture.. I
recall being in a leaving care meeting or something of that nature around
Whitehall or Downing Street working with NSPCC and NCB anyway what ever it was
I came into the street of the NAYPIC office at Camden and saw a big white
dustbin van clean as you like with no markings and there was a man who was
throwing them into the dustbin cart van, with one of those (decorating type
suits) white overall’s on and there was obviously a driver as he ran… when I
shouted ‘oiiii’… to the left of the front of the van and the van pulled off
fast.. I screamed after the van and I could see they had missed a few very tidy
packed black bin bags lined up outside the doors but they got everything else..
I knew we were finished.. so I took the gun out of my bag (plastic magnum) and
left it on the shelf of the office and thought ‘you bastards we’ll be back..’
NAYPIC was already in the media some well bad press shit.. I knew something was
going on.. as I was really ill and not in my right mind it was surreal.. and
could not understand why.. I was paranoid as fuck.. especially that day… hence
the gun (a toy).. us workers were I now know being drugged I suspect.. weird
shit was happening.. it’s all to do with that case. Now Carol got murdered by
Dr Walker in my opinion because a girl told me the details who was at her house
at the time about her injecting into her bum her insulin and they found the
needle in her arm after the GP visited…and by chance he also was my family
doctor and my dad used to always say he was a police doctor and he beat him up
once in our living room in front of us kids and his sister too.. When I saw Dr
Walker at the Inquest I said ‘hi I’m Mary Moss and my dad beat you up in our living
room he looked shocked’.. until I said yeah he was a **** and then he relaxed
as he thought I was on side (when actually I just couldn’t believe my eyes) ..
Now there was 13 Newspapers in that court. 13. 13… I was giving evidence and
said only what Carol had told me which was about all the MP’s involved and the
child porn that was going on secretly and the children’s home kids taken there.
You see Carol was in my opinion such an innocent.. you use instinct.. she was a
woman who ran a guest house in Barnes when a few characters put it to her that
she could run a gay guest house and make money as they had good connections and
they also pleaded homophobia and this gave her a bit of a cause as she
certainly wasn’t anti-gay and lobby had done well for gays at that time so she
was all on board with the whole gay thing and business is business after all..
What is written in that file yes is mind blowing but trust me I did not write
it.. I still don’t get it myself.. I was a worker who would get a call from a
kid and sort out their problems by phoning up their social worker and just say
my name Mary Moss.. and it would get sorted. I had 100’s of cases. That is
because of all the TV appearances I would do and the exposures so social
workers did not want trouble from me. So Carol walks into my office one day
(Job: Development Officer for National Association of Young People In Care) as
she knew of me and tells me her two children were taken off her and because
they were made wards of court she could not take a case for them and for her to
court to prove that she had never let them be abused before they were both 18
years old and there was three months to go.. She told me she was running a
hotel had some fab parties, yes there were prominent people there but hey this was
a nice suburb and that was her business .. but it was only on that night the
police raided when she stupidly thought it was just gay bashing that her eyes
were peeled open for years to come about what was going on under her nose… I do
believe her and I met her for about three months before she got killed.. she
did not know before.. They put a (D notice )defence of the realm notice on
publicity and 2 days later in the Daily Express.. the smoke screen.. brothel..
her kids abused etc and they had her kids as security… but that was not the
case.. I only said verbally what I knew from what she said.. we had an adult
Chris Fay advisor (not a worker!!) working with us about a number of other
cases relating to his neck of the woods and.. yes there were links and yes I
had other independent cases were there were direct links which is how you put
it all together these things a bit like you are all trying to do now.. but
Chris wrote that file and his friend John Oaks a journalist.. MI5 connections
etc..however having worked in this arena its all bullshit.. people wanna bring
down Government’s, sell news etc but really that is not my game.. yes the
timing of it happened during my court case of 4 years and I wish instead it had
of happened when NAYPIC was as it was from 2000-2008 well well posh and well
strong and we would have been ready for this.. but hey that is life.. we’ll be
back when we win and well if not then it is strange the timing of the Jimmy
thing.. destiny is not quantifiable …. we worked in those dark days of Carol
and all who got hurt over that to achieve children’s rights in this country and
that still has not happened.. The police who contacted me were from the same
area as who killed her.. so of course I was paranoid… They got a search warrant
for my home on 7thJan 2013 and took what they needed and my computers but fair
enough I see now.. I put it on the net for our safety as I was fed up of being
chased during my case when I was very busy.. and exposures is not my thing
anymore it’s too dangerous… I by chance got to meet the Fairbank team of 5 at
my flat then and yeah they have good vibes so my instinct says co-operate
perhaps things have changed… I do hope so… I do not wish now to speak to the
media even about my court case as I now have the best legal help.. I just got
my laptop back tonight and this is all I want to say on the matter for now.. no
one reported it then in the media out of 13 newspapers except the sunday
sport.. now is much the same.. I pray we get a YOUTH PARLIAMENT… It is the only
positive thing that can come out of this… 1100 young people voted for it before
we got closed down in 1992 with headlines NAYPIC is dead long live NAYPIC….
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Sorry very tired.. it was the 9th
Jan they got the search warrant and entered my flat to go through every thing I
have in the world.. DID YOU SAY I AM FAIR GAME????? ODD!!!!!!
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Hmmm you all make me sick.. just
fuck off with your shit… I’ll sue you all LIBEL you better worry.. fuckers…
That is changing a bit now. The effort is being helped by the fact I am
collaborating with someone who’s experience, intelligence and curiosity is a
real bonus.YEAH VERY ODD!!!!
Read more: http://www.madlands.co.uk/mary-moss-jo-flores/#ixzz2HdMbhfnT
Follow us: @sitepromoengine on Twitter
…….;…..
On a better website the needleblog this comment was made…
2 Responses to Unlawful Killing –
Princess Diana’s Death
Anna
Hiya – another vid that is very
pertinent. Story of stone of scone relevant
http://www.richplanet.net/starship_main.php?ref=70&part=1
Startling claims
http://www.theworldoftruth.net/HallettReport/No5.html#.UO1lX6zfLWU
links in to the family tree page from this website
http://yourdealingwithmenow.com/
Stay safe -we’re all on your shoulder. :)
http://www.richplanet.net/starship_main.php?ref=70&part=1
Startling claims
http://www.theworldoftruth.net/HallettReport/No5.html#.UO1lX6zfLWU
links in to the family tree page from this website
http://yourdealingwithmenow.com/
Stay safe -we’re all on your shoulder. :)
Thursday, 10 January 2013
I was issued with a search warrant on the 9th Jan for all doc's relating
to Carol Cazier.. I am sure I offered them to the Government but maybe
my lack of having horses prevented such meeting.. I have had my flat
swept by Op 'you know who' completely and professionally and in a very
tidy organized and friendly manner.. I am now co-operating with them. I
have been given my laptop back today but they still hold 19 NAYPIC boxes
which I handed over to them today without hesitation..as I had them
hidden in a friends.. for them just to check in case there is other
related info..and one motherboard computer also which was ceased.. just
to put other blogs at bay... with what really happened.. after I
published all I have... which you now know.. I am not fair game to have
my life intruded on in this way but I trust that in my line of duty to
the case and the victims my life will still stay quite private.. other
than my work.. as they are the only one's who now know absolutely
everything about me.. nice
and this
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2272253/Timebomb-Elm-Guest-House-Pop-stars-bishop-politician-appear-list-seized-police-investigating-child-abuse-London-hotel-1980s.html
and this
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-seize-vip-list-in-dawn-1546351
As you can see my names all linked, google print established so, the court case was corrupted, the top barrister and pro-bono soon leave as Moss/NAYPIC/Exploding child abuse stories etc, was too hot to handle despite any 'absolute liability' excitment of bring back Ryland & Fletcher law on liability.
So like with most of the trail, Moss did the Court of Appeal herself and the Judges were, so corrupt.
Moss took it to the Supreme Court and the European court, as she was not one to give up but late replies or no replies made it illegal but impossible to countence. Europe was a fat waste of postage!
AK and Lisa both died thereafter and maybe it was something to do with this case or maybe not?
AK said to Moss late 2016 after AK was raided, whilst out shopping, that she had the Yorkshire tapes in her attic and she said, “it was something to do with my ex-boyfriend or something to do with you Jo and your raid”
and AK was murdered and there was no investigation on it, plus two inquests, the second one to cover up the first which was highly unusal but they wanted it to look like it was her own fault so lied.
AK's house got raided by police whilst she was out shopping for her teenage daughter and searched while she was dead on the ground in her home. No investigation that a person locked her in to die.
She had told Moss on the phone, she had the Nicky P tapes, something to do with Moss and AK interviewing her in Yorkshire, Nicky P was a NAYPIC Manchester worker and was so terrified when AK and Moss found her in 1993, that they had to speak with her through her own letter box.
Lisa G had contacted Moss through another new, pop up, news abuse website, (as did Andrew A), in 2014, to thank Mary Moss, as she had looked, she said, for Moss for years, to thank her.
Moss just though, they were all got at now by Cllr Chris Fay and didn’t trust even them victims.
A part of her regrets that but it was necessary, as the abuse explosion, they were all being conned by.
Although Moss would have eventually have found she was fine and wasn't in touch with Fay.
But Fay launched himself with Bill Baloney and later Jon Wedger all fake activists. Since Moss had caught out Watson MP, when Moss said, he had been in touch with Fay, even though he denied it, it turned out, he had been, so Moss was right.
Andrew Mary Moss's old NAYPIC case also went to Fay and Alister Jackson BBC Panorama and Moss just couldn't stop all the victims, going to the fake people and was afraid the police and Fay were also making up 'false' victims with actors and officials, from the details she had put on the NN/YP website.
As many people started to say they had been abused and many VIP's had 'false' accusers, oh how convienient.. it was all too easy and was a lot of Chaos.
Real abusers, getting actors to acccuse them, so the real victims couldn't come forward, as the fake ones were so called 'scared, for their lives', and were being chased, in these drama rama's and everyone then was eventually getting put in prison, for 'perverting the course of justice'.. Wow what a show!
Their show!
Oh and the inquiry.
Buying time for the lawyers to make lots of money, sorting this one out, for a nice little cover up and maybe throwing a few abusers in there for good measure.
Some pennies paid clerks, will spill that info, one day for sure on how they made up the inquiry to suit them all!
The police wanted Lisa's evidence from Moss on her case and next thing you know, she was dead!
So the police now had the famous Guest book from Mary Moss's raid, the one she didn’t even know until March 2019' was famous, for having MP’s sign in, and Moss had it all along because Carol, no wonder, gave it to her, for safe keeping. Moss wishes, she had taken more interest in it but it wasn't a young person's case yet, so she didn't have time to understand it all as it was obviously very complex.
 |
| Alot of our advisors were ex-DHSS Gov official's |
 |
| 1st March 2018 Moss was organising a re-launch of NAYPIC/Youth Parliament to call for a Parliamentary budget. Then Beast from the East snow, cost Moss about £2,000 in fares and accomodation as the re-launch had to be cancelled anyway! |
 |
| At the same time as Moss was organising the NEC relaunch, the police in Feb 2018 bring back her boxes taken from the raid and have lots of contact with her. Pictured 21 boxes and the old 90's Community Care Article with Robert in who was dead but he is pictured through Fay's glasses, as whomever works in Community Care is very much in the loop with the DHSS! |
 |
| 21 Boxes returned by Operation Winter Key and about 5 officers came to Moss's home on 12/02/18 |
 |
| 26th Feb 2016 Moss's £1,000 Dell Computer was returned by Fairbanks/Fernbridge with the battery now flat 3 years later |
So it wasn’t Chris Fay's theory notes they were after, they wanted the DNA evidenced guest book, as it was all bagged up, almost exactly as Carol Cazier had given it to Moss at NAYPIC in 1991.
 |
| The Warrant obtained 9/1/13 |
 |
| The Evidence obtained at the search that was taken. The 21 boxes were not at Moss's home, where another book was found. |
Moss doesn't even know how they found it all so precisely and officially as they took nothing else.
 | ||
| 4. Noted by James Townley the officer on the search, contemporaniously as, a 'Crown Court Exhibit' ! |
At the inquiry for child sexual abuse after 6 years of surveillance being tracked everywhere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9GMfYFyCB4
Moss's unflipped, illegible photos that were put onto her blog, made headlines in 2013, thanks to a little known woman called Claire Bennett (Moss found she was recently related to Bennett’s actually they had inherited her rightful inheritance, from Mrs Helen Mary Lloyd, of Lloyds, Moss's old Aunt, on her Mum's side, her Nanny's sister and brother George Sherard Bennett, Moss's old Uncle of Savile Row) Discovery77, credited with encouraging massive publicity on the unflipped photo's on Moss's blog, did this through the David Ike forum. Also something to do with someone who wrote on there, who then died on there, and they created something for him called 'Team Andes' we are to be told.
UK Coloumn with Brian Gerrish ex-Navy programme pops up too with conspiracies running amock. Melaine Shaw whom Moss spoke to on several occassions wants to pop over to see Moss also after being hunted down and locked up like an animal. Yet she trusts this news outlet who gain coverage and doesn't want Moss to get her the legal help that could stop the drama's, very odd indeed.
Claire Bennett, Discovery77 seems to try and attach herself to real or indeed fake victims, a bit of a show. Moss thought initially she was MI5. Maybe shes Chatham, that is home to MI5, who knows?
Bennett was also the only person who contacted Moss (and was very much a cat amonst the pigeons as absolutely, no one else in the public got in touch with Moss), when the news hit the headlines.
Bennett also befriended Ester Baker a 2015 victim who came out on TV, as being abused by an MP who had links to the Elm Guest House case, and Charles Napier, who was done on 13 counts of child abuse. A scapegoat some say for all he knows about all the links there are. Moss did get some of it!
There was a guy called Carl a pathetic emoji on twitter of him curled up on, as his picture.
 |
| Moss claimed Carl was plagerising her exhibition long before he was exposed as NICK paedophile Carl Beech and she accussed the police of working with him to set up the exhibitions in Leicester and also an Evangelical church in the USA. |
 |
| And this guy Robert Mendick who always purports Fay WORKS for NAYPIC which is not true breaks the Carl Beech story |
Then Ben Fellows gives totally the wrong message to any survivor and gives it, "I’m scared for my life" Penis Gate and Bill Baloney and Fay pop their up their ugly mugs in Feb 2013, after Moss's police raid! Especially since Moss named him, so he could no longer hide, and had to make a show.
Moss made it public those were Chris Fay's notes and she bets he didn’t expect that and Guess what he is completely screwed, as dispite her not knowing he is a crook, just as Moss always said he was and don’t tell Moss, that Watson MP didn’t check that out, he must have known very well, this was dirt from the cells for political gain. Watson would have never guessed Moss would name Fay to him like she did and then put it on twitter and continuously warn people he was a badie, as she knew him and his dirty tricks! Oh and he got away with it for a while, yes and then they found the 2011 scandal.
Imprisonment Moss says, for them all!
 |
| Mendick AGAIN!!! Constantly saying Fay works for NAYPIC 2015 try really hard to discredit NAYPIC as a name |
And as for Ben Fellows, Moss decided to attend that fake trial at the Old Bailey and this Tim Wood or someone a Court reporter was there, with only one, other person reporting from the press dock and guess who else he was speaking with, Alister Jackson from the BBC, (who is now chasing Moss since she cottoned on to him too), to be on his Panorama programme, and no one else in British media is at this circus yet it's headline news, can you believe orwellian and lazy, what a pantomime.
That Tim Wood is on twitter had been hanging out with another so called victim, of course Moss can't tell, with no office, who is for real anyway, so this one is twitters Darren Thornham and they are in the weatherspoons, everyday, as another celeb victim. Moss from concern, did contact all the celeb victims and DM'ed them on twitter but, interestingly, there was no reply from most of the big ones.
Moss did even meet a few people at the IICSA inquiry, who were girls two of them, and one said they ‘might’ have been abused at Elm Guest House, when Moss asked as they were hanging out at the pub with Mark Watts of Exaro, who was with Esthers solicitor and very friendly it all seemed, with these girls and infact Moss felt an outsider, which is highly odd, as real victims and survivors normally like Mary Moss.
Mark Watts was the only court reporter at the iicsa Westminister Paedophile hearings and there was honestly no MSM reporting at all, unlike the Carl Beech trial, except of course on David Steel but that was actually a bit later on the consequence of what he said, that he knew Cyril Smith MP, abused boys but promoted him to a Knight so his own party had suspended him, so that made the news.
Even Kenneth Clarke had a chance or was invited to give evidence! No MSM whatsoever!
One of the girls said she had even met Fay two days before and "he spoke highly of you" to Moss!
OMG that is just wrong and why was she in contact with Fay?
Why does everyone fall for him, as the good guy, when he actually was part of a boiler scam to rob old people, with the money going into a bank account he set up, do they not have elderly relatives, the truth shows itself eventually, are they all mad?!
So an inquiry is set up to buy time and went through 4 chairs before arriving at Alexis Jay.
Police finally throw MOSS under the bus saying evidence stamped by a Crown Court was fabricated.
The solicitor and admin woman and press woman and security and anyone who would listen to Moss, she approached, about how she can reply to this criminal libel, officially by the Commander of Police who had slandered her.
They said she could only make a witness statement but she had avoided that inquiry for good reason.
However Moss's witness statement, her reply, that she was forced to reluctantly make and was not wanted anyway so was pointless and lame was not even adduced into public evidence, what a surprise!
Witness Name: Mary Moss
Statement No.: 4
Exhibits:
Dated: 19th March 2019
THE INDEPENDENT INQUIRY INTO CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE
___________________________________________________________________________
Witness Statement of Mary Moss
___________________________________________________________________________
I, Mary Moss , will say as follows:-
I Mary Moss was first contacted on the 6th Nov 2012 by a Mr Jim Reed whom I had never met or heard of before, from the BBC, who wrote to me having seen my website http://www.youthparliament.org.uk/bodydata/modellocalgroup.htm that had been in place for 20 years on my NAYPIC abuse cases (and NAYPIC’s current legal situation), in particular Barnes Elm Guest House and my dealings with the owner’s children’s cases Eric and Natalie; Exhibit 1. Jim’s email to naypic@hotmail.com address
https://legalaidcuts.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-real-cost-of-human-rights-when.html Here is a summary made as a complaint to the European Courts around UK judicial corruption of the case for NAYPIC’s two central London premises est by me in 2000 to 2015. I was representing myself (for 6 years), at the time of contact with Mr Jim Reed at the Court of Appeal, the Strand. The case brought me a lot of attention from inside housing, legal people, barrister’s media and liability insurers due to its floodgate nature worldwide on ‘absolute liability’ and after it was written up in over 20 legal firms and journals on the internet ‘Gavin and Cracy V Community Housing Association’ (One Housing Group) and their insured. I wanted to be as helpful as possible but was busy representing myself with 4 to 5 boxes of 5 A4 ring bound folders to a box. Mr Jim Reed persuaded me to meet him for a quick coffee at the BBC Corporation House. He did this by way of guilt and a bit a deceit. He said that information on a VIP (and he was talking of Mc Alpine) paedophile and he needed to verify their identity with me. I gave him half an hour of my time in the lunch hour as I was flat out working with an appearance to be made in just under a month at court. I did it at the BBC as he wanted to come to mine but I was suspicious of anyone at that point with my court case and files etc. He named Mc Alpine and I said I had never heard of him abusing anyone and that if I was them the BBC I would be very cautious about naming people that I had never heard of as I had heard of many of them and that could lead to a lot of trouble for real cases in the future especially since Saville had just been successfully exposed. I did not know at the time when I met Jim Reed that he knew Angus Stickler and Angus had approached me in 2008 from a comment I made in a Guardian article. He said if I was Mary Moss he said he remembered from a piece he done in the 80;s to contact him. I did and told him all about my dispute with my landlord so he was the first to know pretty much all the recent NAYPIC activities as well as know I had changed my name. Then as if the timing could be any closer to my court case, the McAlpine debacle happened. I was watching it at a friend’s house as I was feeding his cat early in the morning as he was away on holiday. I happened to be not far from the BBC and so I went there and called Jim Reed on the way. I said to him, tell Entwhistle not to resign as he will make it very difficult for any of us who aren’t protected to speak out on real abusers now and that this was a disaster. He said he was being hauled into a meeting. Within the hour the Director General had resigned and I was standing outside with the world’s press. I felt like all the progress had gone backward. Also that I had somewhat been slapped right in the middle of this one and so I thought I am never going to be able to progress with a youth parliament now or get the money together to get a law center to take cases. Then I approached several different countries journalist, including China, Netherlands etc and spilled the beans on what I knew. I thought if they want to shut me up by some vicarious association with this case, I wasn’t going to be stopped that easily. So now the world knew what Jim knew, that I had mentioned to him. The next day my house was full with newspaper journalist and they all wanted to know what I knew.
I was then contacted by a second BBC journalist a Mr Alister Jackson on 28th Nov 2012. He said he had seen my www.youthparliament.co.uk website also but he was looking for a Mr Christopher Fay, so I replied, I hadn’t seen him since 1987 (which was actually 1991 but I answered quite quickly). Mr Jackson then turned up to my 04/12/12 Court Case, where I had just won permission to appeal Exhibit 2 with some pro-bono help from Jan Luba QC. Mr Jackson was with a ‘friend’ called David Pallister an ex-Guardian Journalist who I remember thinking looked a bit like Christopher Fay but he stated he was working for a new website called Exaro and mentioned his wife was also a journalist. I explained to them both that although what they were dealing with was of great importance, my court case was more important to me and I could not speak with them. I agreed to meet them the next day if they went away so that I could celebrate with my supporters in the pub next door, the bank, where they had also followed me to. I didn’t like Pallister but Alister did say if he could help at all with my court case, he would, so I took him up on his offer and had him writing asking questions to RSA insurers stating he worked for Panorama. He even came to my house for a chat. At a later point when Stingmore and The Tony McSweeney were arrested he introduced me to Ed Campbell who worked for ITV and Lucy Manning as apparently Jackson’s wife worked with them and he said all four knew each other. This prompted Channel 4’s Paraic O’Brien to also do an interview as now Elm Guest House was a live inquiry so that was my main contact with him in the early days of 2012. Alister Jackson did not go away. I tried to get rid of him by mainly ignoring him. He wanted the Guest book and since I had already given photocopies to him, I retrieved it and let him borrow it. I asked him to try and get in touch with a witness to NAYPIC Andrew Ashworth. I said he had vital information on abuse and I was worried for his life years ago. I gave him his last known address in Bradford and to my surprise he found him but he wouldn’t give me his details. Later I realised that Mr Jackson was at the Ben Fellows Court Case and was talking to the only other court reporter there. I found the case strange as I had had a serious allegation on Mr Ken Clarke form the 80’s yet this was all a pantomime. I wasn’t surprised seeing Jackson as I had already become suspicious of his and flat out refused to part of his Panoraman VIP programme “a platform for a crook” I called it.
I was contacted by MP Tom Watson on the 11/12/12 Exhibit 4. This contact was made subject to a complaint that was later thrown out and I was told to take it to a Judicial Review. I made the complaint finally at the stage when the IOPC did not have to contact the police asking them to investigate. The IOPC from 8th Jan 2018 could now investigate complaints directly and not involve the police. Either it was deliberate or at best someone just automatically used the old system but I was told that my complaint had to go to the DPS for investigation, ie the Home Office as the complaint involved them.
THIS IS A COPY OF MY COMPLAINT Complaints Support Team 22nd Floor Empress State Building Empress Approach Lillie Road London SW6 1TR E-mail: DPSMailbox-.CST@met.police.uk Our reference: QU/00067/18 Date: 11 January 2018
Dear Ms Moss
We need some more information about your complaint
You recently contacted us via the IPCC to make a complaint against the Metropolitan Police Service.
Here is the complaint;
I worked in NAYPIC National Association of Young People In Care as their London Development Officer from 1987 to 1992. I then resigned to develop the organisation Nationally as a volunteer national and then stood for election elected at three conferences and was voted National Chair of the National Executive Committee by 1800 youth. I must have had in the region of 100 complaints on my desk at any given time, throughout my time as a London Development Officer. I had a high media profile and was able to resolve many cases as well as meet and consult with professionals at all levels including, the Health Minister and most members of the Dept of Health at the time. In 1993 the NAYPIC was raided whilst I was at a leaving care launch with the NCCVO, NSPCC and NAYPIC just near Downing Street. I witnessed a new white dustbin cart with two men in forensic white all-in-one suits take the last of the NAYPIC London and South office into their dustbin cart possession. I shouted at them to stop and the man taking the last of our case files, in black bin bags, filled just enough to be carried, ran to the van as I chased it down Stucley Street NW1, a small street in Camden where NAYPIC had a modern contemporary, two storey office, heavily protected with metal shutters that I had had installed money I fundraised from Children In Need. Upon entering the empty offices of National Association of Young People In Care I could see that they had taken £10,000 worth of computers, paid for with money I had raised from Children In Need, as well as the office desks, chairs. I salvaged the last thirty or so bin bags and took them to an office of a charity further up the road in Camden, called ‘the serious road trip’ who were feeding and entertaining the children on buses throughout war torn Europe. They kindly allowed me to have an office in return for helping them to fundraise. Many NAYPIC cases were then safe and secure but much of the more sensitive casework I had already hidden, at my home. I did that because this was evidence that would historically come into use, when children, one day, had a voice and police forces took abuse of children more seriously then they did at the time. In all our NAYPIC files we always put a notice inside of the cover of files reading ‘this evidence is protected by PACE Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984.’ NAYPIC may have been raided by the Home Office in 1993, as a series of events then took place with funding from all Government organisations withdrawn and then followed an odd and insensitive article by a social work journal with a picture of one of our young management committee, who had recently committed suicide pictured through the glasses of an adult advisor, whom we had recently sacked, stating ‘NAYPIC is Dead, Long live NAYPIC’. I was asked by my then Management Committee, to practically give up any other career steps I may have gone on to do, since I was educated and experiences in child care issues and had come 2nd out of 70 applicants in a job worth over fifty thousand, if I could carry the mantle of setting NAYPIC back up and to be remunerated and compensated for any directors loans once I had carried out the last wish and vote of NAYPIC, to have a membership of all 12 million children by parliamentary budget and that NAYPIC was to be called NNYP New NAYPIC Youth Parliament. I successfully set up two art galleries to fund NNYP in 1999 to 2013. It was not to my surprise then during 2012 (when I was representing myself against a top firm of lawyers in an important 2 million pounds precedent court case against RSA & UKU insurance company and my landlord Community Housing Association, the Chair of whom, was sister in law of the Master of the Rolls on ‘Absolute Liability’ in disrepair to both the shops following flooding into the premises from outside on the landlords premises) that I had suddenly come to the attention of some of the establishment who didn’t like me due to the absolute liability case and perhaps those too whom had stumbled on me through www.youthparliament.co.uk which had long list of historical abuses, that had been on that site since 1999 or early 2000. Now however the establishment putting two and two together, worked out I was not someone who had gone away even with a name change and NNYP had contemporary premises in central London www.scarletmaguire.com and www.spaceshift.co.uk and I was quite a dab hand at being in court on this absolute liability case, which was valuable to insurers worldwide and that I with a passion had set out to ensure that my case and essentially NNYP was not stolen again, by the powers that be, who had already trespassed both shop premises in 2008 with all the NAYPIC files in the downstairs offices. I had a blog called www.legalaidcuts.blogspot.com to hi-light the pure corruption in my case. I was again a thorn in the establishment’s side. A Mr Watson MP for labour, I believe met with the 1992 sacked former advisor of NAYPIC’s, as when he emailed me and then later called me, he used the same uncanny language of that former advisor and he sounded very sensationalist to me, bearing in mind he had recently had some success in the Leverson inquiry and was populist MP at the time, I saw him as feathering his own nest, I yawned upon taking notes of what he was saying and was then surprised when he asked me to co-operate with any police that may approach me in secret. Having a serious court case to get on with and being soon in the Court of Appeal with a top Pro-Bono QC who was endangering bringing back ‘Ryland v Fletcher’ and the law of ‘Absolute Liability this contact with Mr Watson smacked to me of the same adult advisor and his Russian counter-parts, enlisting either blatantly or chancing it a Mr Tom Watson MP. I knew something would blow re child abuse if that adult advisor had anything to do with it but then and now in 2012 I wasn’t going to be any part of it, I knew I would just let it be as my work was to raise an economy not a hell again as had been in 1993 when life as NAYPIC knew it was finished, as was children’s rights for years to come. I thanked Mr Watson for his time and said something like that I ‘could not work with police as I had been given evidence in confidence by young people, back then’. I also made sure I gave nothing away when he kept mentioning Mr Peter Righton and the Elm guest house except to say that yes it was all my casework. I was then contacted by DCI PAUL SETTLE and asked to hand over confidential info so I put it on my blog and was raided.
From: New NAYPIC <naypic@hotmail.com> Sent: 15 January 2018 20:49 To: DPSMailbox-.CST@met.pnn.police.uk Subject: Re: Complaint against Met Police, our ref QU/67/18 Mary Moss
I have run out of space to finish on the application attached. So just to say I put it on the internet because I was scared for anyone on those notes as well as for my own safety. I feared that unless I made it public then secret operations could just tidy up whatever it was they thought I still had. I knew that none of it was formulated properly and that the evidence required to convict had not yet been properly attained by NAYPIC. I knew that people could be be bumped off and made to look like they done it themselves.
I tried so hard to have that conversation with the Prime Minister or the Home Office. I was under a duty to protect that information. When The Home Office finally told me to work with the police in a secret op with no agenda I saw this as theft of the organisation again just like in 1993.
Nine officers came to my house at 6am on the 9th Jan 2013. A friend answered the door as I had been at a family birthday party in South London and had stayed the night. My friend called me to tell me, "I was having my coffee and the door went. I looked through the keyhole and it was like out of a movie. They held up their badge and asked me to open the door. I had to take my shower and go to work I did not care but they are in your house Jo you have to come now..'
I phoned up Bindman's solicitors as I have successfully sued the East Sussex Police with them for assault and battery and false imprisonment in 1993. Although the legal aid cuts did not allow me any legal recourse, I was advised on a compassionate basis to quote the law regarding something or other I don't recall. I called DCI Settle and spoke to him on this law.
I arrived with my friend a senior social work consultant who was also at the party the night before. I was met in the court yard by DCI Settle and a white female officer who stated her name but I forgot. I saw two undercover officers one male with blonde hair and one black female coming out of my building with a huge black hold all and they made out they were nothing to do with anything. I however knew they had done something in my flat and sensed something nasty with filming as they were smug as if they'd set me up or something? I later spotted the blonde officer at the Empress building so I knew I hadn't been wrong with my instincts but still don't know what heavy equipment was in the large bag. I'd like to know still?
Upon entry to my flat my friend and I were friendly but silent. A gentleman was sitting in plain suit and coat on my sofa and said very little. I imagine him to be senior but he seemed nice enough. I am house proud and my flat is full of art so I said to him 'do you like my flat' he said yes. The lady officer and two other uniformed officers James Townley and I forgot his name but have it recorded somewhere stood at my kitchen bar and asked me to sigh for my £1000 desk computer which had been bagged up and then for my laptop which had all my current court case proceeding on it, that had also been bagged up. I noticed that they had found the guest signing in book with the likes of cliff Richard signed in and many others and that they had found a copy of the written allegations that a former adult advisor had written up to do with that case of the Elm Guest House. They missed a copy however that I had placed face down under the wardrobe of my white floor so that worked as I still held a copy. Someone asked me something about my court case and did I think this would help? I agreed although I wasn't sure what the hell they were going on about. I signed and with my legs not noticeably shaking I was friendly and let them out. I felt traumatised by the whole experience and now that the rid had happened I felt victimised and scared. I phoned a friend who had the rest of NAYPIC info in his shed. He wanted me to take it so he was not raided. It had more Elm Guest House evidence in the 19 boxes. I was afraid to leave my house and I set up a pet cam. I believed that they were accessing my house. This especially when some of the stuff they had appeared back in my house or on the internet. Lots of people like Madland's whom i believed were police started having a say on twitter about me. My court case reputation was now ruined and my name Mary Moss was all over the tabloids and the internet. I spent 3 years after trying not to be associated with the adult advisor whom I had sacked for good reason, yet his name and mine as well as the good name and work of NAYPIC became deliberately entangled with his past and of some 2012 Olympic Fraud he had been involved with yet I hadn't seen him since i sacked him as an advisor in 1991. Lots of care experienced adults contacted me. Lots of nutters too and I had now neither premises nor reputation. I have bearly survived all of it by just keeping my head down as I am only too well aware of the dangers of it all. The police in August 2013 started to put co-ordinates around my house since I wouldn't go out much. They also tracked my phone and blatantly followed me directly over my head as if this was a joke and they were getting a kick out of it. I still get followed. I still have trolls that I have ignord for ages now and I still make reference to NAYPIC boxes on social media. Lawyers for the child abuse inquiry I believe including Fiona Woolf and Butler Sloss have seen them as well as many police forces throughout the country. I have been told a few times who had them and for what op. Former cases of mine have been approached and harassed. Cases that aren't mine have too. There has been no co-ordination, no witness protection and an inquiry set up that none of us trust. Every whinger you can imagine has been on twitter muddying the waters and the whole episode lacks any dignity or organisation. I was never asked for a statement and was treated like an enemy of the state. Fake exhibitions, victims and criminals have made this child abuse explosion into the chaos that it now is with no legal aid for victims/survivors to put their cases. with the people I know who are involved this was a planned explosion with a state and police outcome protecting those who in many ways are robbing our country and selling us down the river and will no longer deal with the law they are becoming the law and abusing it all.
I have only complained because I thought that I could complain to the IOPC direct from the 8th Jan 2018. However this complaint makes me now feel in further danger. I was followed as recently as 28th Dec across Russel Square Park and then into a shopping center. I am the subject of all the recent allegations against all the celebraties on the dubbed Mary Moss list. Yet the UK ignored me for years and years as Jo Gavin who ran two art galleries and was coming to power.
Mary Moss
I was asked for feedback regarding how my complaint was handled on 14th February 2019 this was the day Neil Jerome signed off his witness statement. Having had my 21 boxes returned to me by Operation Winter Key on 14th Feb 2018 I asked Rebecca Hall from the original Investigation what I was in all of this. I explained that DCI Settle had been in front of the select committee and Cliff Richard had had his out of court settlements etc so ‘what was I in all this’, and she said, I was the ‘keeper of information’ that was all. I was horrified that I was firmly associated with Chris Fay and by all accounts Tom Watson had said that his sources came from information that was given to him by some journalist who got it from me and him. Chris Fay was employed by the London Borough of Greenwich when I met him and he was a labour councillor who gave me information on a serving MP at the time as well as abuse in a secure unit and a children’s home. He has never been in the employ of NAYPIC. I have never been as suggested by Commander Neil Jerome interviewed by the police. From what I can make out the statement by Jerome is a deliberate attempt to mislead the inquiry with the assistance of the shoddy investigations of the IOPC and with the assistance of Tom Watson MP and the BBC.
Statement of Truth
I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.
Signed: __________________________Mary Moss_______________
Dated: ___________________19th March 2019_______________________
Witness Name:
Statement No.: 1
Exhibits:
Dated:
THE INDEPENDENT INQUIRY INTO CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE
___________________________________________________________________________
EXHIBIT [ ] / 1
___________________________________________________________________________
2. 3. 4.
So Moss makes a youtube video instead as this as she expected is a corrupt waste of millions, hence why she had ignored it, but she had no idea Elm Guest House would be part of it or her name would be dragged into it, as she had not been contacted by the inquiry yet Moss was publically named on day 1 and the last day with no protection, right of reply or indeed the curtosity of letting her know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16OyloYmlfw
But when Moss went down there she was glad because she met Tim Hulbert a core participant and he whistleblew on PIE Paedophile Information Exchange, that the Home Office were funding it, through the Women's Institute and he was being treated like a crook in this show, so she wasn't alone there.
Moss sat in the seat in front of Harvey Proctor, as he is probably the safest bet albeit a perv, done for spanking boys, in there.
He just wants a payout and revenge as his mates have left him. He done well for an Essex boy! However he was named as a murderer, so might be a good case for a state pension out of that one.
New laws protecting all the abusers will no less and no doubt be issued thanks to the BBC no less!
On the last day when Moss decided on the day, to attend to watch, she only get s mentioned again, the girl who says she had met Fay two days before, who appears after lunch, her friend of a shout out of “you weren’t there” shame, no manners, says "are you friends with Harvey Proctor?" so stupid!
I mean this circus is only two of them and Mark Watt so it is weird and of course Esther whom seems more plausible and certainly if she were fake she has the right details but she could have got those off Fay for all I know. It's all just done wrong to me. They may all have been abused? At Elm of course!!
The whistle blower lovely guy John Tim Hulbert gets told he is mistaking the PIE Paedophile Information Exchange for pies, that are off the great British Bake off that kind of thing!
Moss tuts loudly and is heard, I mean what else can she do at that one?
Then Police seem to want Moss suddenly near them again as they can’t raid her but they have after all said she has fabricated witness evidence, from an Old Bailey Trial in 1982, so they start chasing her for a complaint she made to the IOPC in Jan 2018, that they said she couldn’t pursue, since it was about her 2013 raid and Tom Watson but now, that’s okay, decision overturned, they now want to meet with Moss….
Although upon doing this edit in May 19' the IOPC, have got back about the second complaint, which is related, that Commander Neil Jerome, who threw Moss under a bus in criminal libel at the iicsa, the IOPC said they have 12 weeks to deal with it, and there is a waiting list, so Moss is sure that it will also be out of time. The fabulous ineffectual IOPC, set up by the current Prime Minister to stop police being criminally prosecuted, so now most retire and not one has ever been done.
In fact the guy from police professional standards investigating Moss's second complaint, has a misconduct IOPC complaint upheld against him, for violence in a public office, so professional standards now have him working for them, ha ha, the irony.
Lesson's learned, they wouldn't treat victims the same as they did in the past, IOPC say at the iicsa..
It wouldn't happen again, Alexis Jay honestly govner… doff doff ,while millions are spent on the inquiry.
Altman the inquirier for most of the 'inquiry' thinks he is in a criminal trial and funnily enough, Moss notices another Altman, as mates with Charles Napier, in the case, as Altman sizes Moss up a few times probably wondering why she has turned up and seems rattled, another show disturbed!
And an ex-home office solicitor, employee Martin Smith, is Solicitor to the inquiry, no less!
Martin Smith says the chair will not see Moss's emails or adduce anything she says into public record. Police have said they interviewed Moss, when they raided her and spied on her and have never offered her a solicitor to make a witness statement, or to be protected by being a police witness, not that Moss would of, but then freely police said to the inquiry, that they have interviewed Moss which is strictly not true whatsoever, at any point, and now they say to a multi-million pounds public inquiry, that they have neither sought evidence for, nor even has the inquiry itself asked for evidence on, that Mary Moss herself fabricated the Elm Guest House evidence, which Moss is certain is a criminal offense, if the chairs final report concludes that it's true! Waiting for that one is nice. Being defined as a person for the 'Westminister Paedo ring' will of course be wonderful too.
Also
Moss gets the most ridiculous letter from the Met Police saying she's
abusing
process complaining to the IOPC that Commander Neil Jerome has lied to
the inquiry about her and that the police are refusing to record it as a
complaint, as they say, she must go through, the inquiry, who say she
can't have her evidence made public, yet the Commander is free to
criminally libel Moss, to a so called public inquiry.
Meanwhile Mary Moss needs a lawyer or are these her draft particulars of claim, to sue the police, the Government and the IOPC, the Home Office, Tom Watson and the BBC and associated press et el..
UK establishment maybe Mary Moss is going to get you next!
That’s all folks!
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